The sound hole "patch" in stew mac's kit

**Caleb** · Dec-10-2007, 5:41pm

Can anyone tell me what the purpose of the soundhole patch included in Stew Mac's campfire kit? I just got done bracing up the top and it's now glued up to the rest of the body. I couldn't see any use for this patch, so I left it off. The guy who's helping me out (a guitar builder) couldn't figure it out either.

Anyone?

**toddjoles** · Dec-10-2007, 6:03pm

If I remember right on my kit the patch was pretty thin. #When used cross grain it helps to keep the edge of the soundhole from splitting. #A lot of old flat tops have problems with splitting from the soundhole towards the head block alongside the fingerboard.

**jlatorre** · Dec-14-2007, 1:21pm

Originally Posted by (toddjoles @ Dec. 10 2007, 19:03)

If I remember right on my kit the patch was pretty thin. When used cross grain it helps to keep the edge of the soundhole from splitting. A lot of old flat tops have problems with splitting from the soundhole towards the head block alongside the fingerboard.

What he said.

I hope you haven't glued the back on yet.

You'll notice that a lot of mandolins have their f-holes and oval holes similarly reinforced with glued-on surgical gauze or linen to keep those areas from splitting.

JLT

**David Newton** · Dec-14-2007, 3:08pm

As you didn't use the flat slab around the hole, it will need something to keep the top from sinking at the hole. A little cross brace just below the hole could be put in thru the hole and clamped, if you have the right clamps. Or, just go with your gut and leave it out.

**buddyellis** · Dec-14-2007, 3:10pm

Many builders leave off the gauze on an F5, too. It arguably doesn't help prevent cracking, and makes repair of said cracks more difficult.

**Stephanie Reiser** · Dec-16-2007, 5:15am

Not sure if I understand correctly what you mean, but I think that patch helps to support the bridge since the area where the patch is, on that thin flat top, is where the bridge sits.
Sorta like on flat top guitars.
FWIW, I do not gauze my F-holes.

**Bill Snyder** · Dec-16-2007, 8:39am

stephanie the patch he is refering to does not go below the bridge but is quite literally support for the soundhole.

**Caleb** · Dec-17-2007, 12:32am

Well, I've already put the body together, so I'll just have to live with whatever consequences come from leaving out the patch. I guess I should have included it, since it was included in the kit. Live and learn.

But, I have changed the shape from the Army-Navy style to more of a Weber design, which in turn made me have to alter the bracing pattern as well. It's really a completely different body style than the kit was intended to be, but it's been fun changing things up.

I just got the flame maple binding on, which cracked in a few spots during bending, so I'm going to be repairing that, as well as some mistakes I made on the rosette...it was my first time using a router, so I think I did pretty good considering.

At any rate, here are some pics. What do you fine folks think of the mando so far? I'll be putting on the fretboard soon and then it'll be ready for fit and finish. I'm pretty excited!

**Caleb** · Dec-17-2007, 12:33am

And another, so you can see the binding better.....

**Stephanie Reiser** · Dec-17-2007, 4:46am

Usually with wood binding, I like to prebend on a hot pipe first. Your guitar friend might have one.
I sure like your design more so than the Stew-Mac.
Looking forward to seeing how you choose to stain and finish.
Great job!

**David Newton** · Dec-17-2007, 8:45am

Caleb, don't you know to level the binding and sand everything before going and posting a picture here? We're all supposed to pretend that everything on the bench is 90% finished, clean and sharp, none of these ugly half finished things...
I like how you've taken this kit and made it your own.

**Caleb** · Dec-17-2007, 10:49am

Originally Posted by (Amanda Lyn @ Dec. 17 2007, 05:46)

Usually with wood binding, I like to prebend on a hot pipe first. Your guitar friend might have one.
I sure like your design more so than the Stew-Mac.
Looking forward to seeing how you choose to stain and finish.
Great job!

Strangely enough, we did prebend the sides, but the pieces kept cracking in places. We even soaked them beforehand. It's weird, but like I said, I'm learning a bit of repair work as well as building, so I'm alright with the imperfections.

Thanks for the compliments on the design. I really wanted to make my own mandolin, but I didn't want the pancake look. I hope this one will work ok and sound like I'm hoping it will. If not, it'll look great on the wall.

**Caleb** · Dec-17-2007, 10:53am

Originally Posted by (Dave in Tejas @ Dec. 17 2007, 09:45)

Caleb, don't you know to level the binding and sand everything before going and posting a picture here? We're all supposed to pretend that everything on the bench is 90% finished, clean and sharp, none of these ugly half finished things...
I like how you've taken this kit and made it your own.

LOL.

One thing that has really been nice to learn is how ugly something is one minute, and then how nice it can look after a few mintues with sandpaper. The rosette is a good example, and it's not even done yet. But after the inlays dried up there was this terrible mess all over the top of glue, etc. But after sanding it was really surprising. I'm sure the botched binding job will be much the same.

Thanks for the compliments on the design.

**Mandolusional** · Dec-17-2007, 12:52pm

That's cool you modified the kit, the new shape with the round hole and rosette reminds me of an avocado.

**toddjoles** · Dec-17-2007, 1:27pm

As long as you have already made so many mods, you might as well address the neck angle problem with the kit.

The way it comes, there is no neck angle to speak of. This means you have to cut the bridge down to nothing on set up.

Taking off a LITTLE from the bottom of the heel will fix this. Of course you will have to cut a shim to fit between the top and fingerboard.

**Caleb** · Dec-17-2007, 1:36pm

Originally Posted by (toddjoles @ Dec. 17 2007, 14:27)

As long as you have already made so many mods, you might as well address the neck angle problem with the kit.

The way it comes, there is no neck angle to speak of. #This means you have to cut the bridge down to nothing on set up.

Taking off a LITTLE from the bottom of the heel will fix this. #Of course you will have to cut a shim to fit between the top and fingerboard.

Thanks for the tip; I might try that. I've focused so much on aesthetics thus far, that I'm actually only now considering playablility. Thanks again....

**David Newton** · Dec-17-2007, 4:00pm

Caleb, looking at your bracing over on the other thread (why'd you make it so difficult?)I think you could aim at a bridge height of around 1/2" to 5/8" when you are setting your neck.
Oh, welcome to the "flat-top club" by the way!

**Caleb** · Dec-17-2007, 5:39pm

Originally Posted by (Dave in Tejas @ Dec. 17 2007, 17:00)

Caleb, looking at your bracing over on the other thread (why'd you make it so difficult?)I think you could aim at a bridge height of around 1/2" to 5/8" when you are setting your neck.
Oh, welcome to the "flat-top club" by the way!

I wasn't trying to make it difficult and didn't realize that I was. I guess you could call my approach to the entire endeavor as "winging it".

**Bill Snyder** · Dec-17-2007, 8:18pm

I think he meant you are making it difficult to keep track of the threads by having two current ones going instead of just having everything in one.

**David Newton** · Dec-17-2007, 9:59pm

Yes, Caleb, I was just giving you a hard time about the two threads. I said to myself "wow, two guys building almost exact flat-tops at the same time".
You know this is just the first one, right? The way you are jumping in and innovating you'll be hooked for sure, it's a great craft.
You know I've got a couple going right now too?

**Caleb** · Dec-17-2007, 10:00pm

Originally Posted by (Curious @ Dec. 17 2007, 21:18)

I think he meant you are making it difficult to keep track of the threads by having two current ones going instead of just having everything in one.

Thanks... got that now.

I started a thread a while back about the mando itself, and since this one was only about the soundhole patch, I figured I start a new update thread.

**Caleb** · Dec-17-2007, 10:03pm

Originally Posted by (Dave in Tejas @ Dec. 17 2007, 22:59)

Yes, Caleb, I was just giving you a hard time about the two threads. I said to myself "wow, two guys building almost exact flat-tops at the same time".
You know this is just the first one, right? The way you are jumping in and innovating you'll be hooked for sure, it's a great craft.
You know I've got a couple going right now too?

Yeah, no big deal on the hard time. #I guess 2 threads is a bit silly, but I wasn't thinking clearly...it was late at night.

Yes, I already want to build another one, but I want to see how this one plays and sounds before I completely make that decision. #If this thing looks like a pearl but sounds like a sick dog dying, it's back to the drawing board. #And if that is the case, I'll likely stick to the design of the kit next time. #But I've got a feeling this one will be ok.

**David Newton** · Dec-18-2007, 8:16am

Good morning Caleb. Forget the sick dog, it will sound great, first ones always do. I think it's the 3rd (or 5th) one stinks.

**markishandsome** · Dec-18-2007, 10:03am

Originally Posted by

Forget the sick dog, it will sound great, first ones always do. I think it's the 3rd (or 5th) one stinks.

FACT!

**jlatorre** · Dec-21-2007, 10:25pm

Good going, Caleb!

I'd definitely give some consideration to increasing the neck angle. I got my own Campfire mandolin from the friend I'd loaned it to, and my first reaction was "Gee, that bridge looks low." (The second reaction was "Gee, that top is thick!") After playing with it a while, I think I would have been wise to thickness the top to about 0.100" rather than the 0.125" that it came with.

I also found that the neck angle and its subsequent effect on action is incredibly sensitive to the amount of torque applied to the nut that holds the neck onto the body. I've retightened it twice so far, and it looks like I'll have to do it again. So check that before you go mucking with bridge height.