Point of origin identification

**billkilpatrick** · Dec-10-2007, 3:47am

my epiphone mm-20 has two "made in ..." stickers - the neck says china and the body says korea. is it possible that the former was made in china and the later in korea and that the two were assembled in either country?

the complete model identification is "mm-20vs - serial no. 03020350. " anyone know what "vs" stands for? ... does the serial no. mean anything?

i'll write epiphone as well - just curious to know where it was made.

i looked in the archive but couldn't find anything ... "ilitabcfa."

**MikeEdgerton** · Dec-10-2007, 7:58am

On other Epiphone products vs stands for Vintage Sunburst.

**billkilpatrick** · Dec-10-2007, 12:04pm

a posting from martin - regarding this thread - hasn't appeared yet but in it he suggests that "vs" could mean "violin scale" and gives that as 13" (as opposed to 13"7/8 for the normal scale.)

as it happens, the epiphone i have has a normal scale ... BUT! (!!!) in checking the scale of my bowlback, i found that the bridge was wrongly placed - halfway between the two scales - and when i adjusted it to a violin scale, the tone of the instrument improved enormously!

learned something today! ... the 13" - 13"7/8 scale on my three mandolins aren't exact - i.e., the note on the 7th fret of the "g" string doesn't produce an exact "d" but according to the chromatic tuner it's pretty close. i've slid the bridge around, making minor adjustments - up/down and at slight angles - trying to get a perfect trade-off but i think the frets are slightly off as well.

**MikeEdgerton** · Dec-10-2007, 1:03pm

I think you'll find that Gibson doesn't give that kind of attention to the Epiphone brand. Is yours a sunburst model?

**Greenmando** · Dec-10-2007, 1:21pm

On the Epiphone website it is refered to as AS - Antique Sunburst.
As Mike mentioned Gibson does not give much attention to Epiphone, the website often drops off the web all together, I would not doubt any current info is not common to a 2 year old mandolin.

**johnl** · Dec-10-2007, 2:09pm

I believe several of the Korean companies that supplied Epiphone have opened plants in China, so maybe the neck was made in China, but the final assembly was in Korea. The Guitar Dater Project's #serial decoder says it was made in Korea in 2003, but that's all.
Epiphone's vast color palette includes both a vintage sunburst (vs) and an antique sunburst (as), and #they used to offer mandolins in translucent red, green, blue, and black. Looks like all they want to offer now is the antique sunburst.

**MikeEdgerton** · Dec-10-2007, 2:32pm

Originally Posted by (Greenmando @ Dec. 10 2007, 14:21)

On the Epiphone website it is refered to as AS - Antique Sunburst.

Check out the color selection on this Epiphone. I'm going to guess that their choice of color designation changes with manufacturers or marketing years.

**billkilpatrick** · Dec-10-2007, 4:25pm

Originally Posted by (johnl @ Dec. 10 2007, 15:09)

I believe several of the Korean companies that supplied Epiphone have opened plants in China, so maybe the neck was made in China, but the final assembly was in Korea. The Guitar Dater Project's #serial decoder says it was made in Korea in 2003, but that's all.
Epiphone's vast color palette includes both a vintage sunburst (vs) and an antique sunburst (as), and #they used to offer mandolins in translucent red, green, blue, and black. Looks like all they want to offer now is the antique sunburst.

thanks johnl - the plot thickens ... in looking at the "limited lifetime warranty" booklet which arrived with the mandolin, i see that the 03020350 serial number stamped in the mandolin had a "DW" prefix added to the number in the warranty. #when i put both prefix and serial number in the "guitar dater" site you so kindly provided, i see that my mandolin came from the Daewon China factory in Dalian, Northern China. #i don't know why i would have preferred a korean origin but - there you are ... much like the 100% mutt pedigree of most americans, my mandolin is 100% pure pacrim!

mike - as you suggested, it would appear that "vs" means "vintage sunburst." # the warranty, however, that accompanied the instrument (contrary to the sticker within the instrument) states that my mandolin is "as" - "antique sunburst" - what's in a name? - it sounds great.

martin - don't know why your post never made it to the message board but THANKS HEAPS! for causing me to make that little correction to the bridge placement on my bowlback: i now have three beautiful sounding instruments.

**Martin Jonas** · Dec-11-2007, 2:01am

Originally Posted by (billkilpatrick @ Dec. 10 2007, 17:25)

martin - don't know why your post never made it to the message board but THANKS HEAPS! for causing me to make that little correction to the bridge placement on my bowlback: i now have three beautiful sounding instruments.

Bill,

I posted at exactly the same time as Mike, but where I offered some unfounded speculation regarding the meaning of "vs", Mike offered solid information on the same point, so I immediately deleted my post. Mid-Mo use "vs" to designate their violin scale mandos, but Epiphone evidently don't. Glad there was something of value in the deleted post for you, even if only incidentally.

For all your mandolins, the nominal scale length is only approximate and for good tone and intonation, it is essential that you make some fine adjustments to the bridge position. With the bridge in the correct position, the fretted note at the 12th fret should be exactly one octave higher than the open string. Even one or two millimetres may make a big difference. Typical bowlback bridges are uncompensated, so you'll need to compromise somewhat across the four courses. You can adjust bridge position to optimise the 7th fret instead of the 12th -- whatever your preference. That will probably make little difference on the Epiphone, as modern fret placements are pretty exact, but old bowlbacks may have somewhat imprecise fret placement.

Glad to hear the bowlback is better than you thought!

Martin

**Big Joe** · Dec-11-2007, 6:23am

The VS certainly means vintage sunburst. Also, the China made mandolins were usually quite a bit better than the Korean models. The Chinese models were made in a Gibson facility under the scrutiny of Epiphone management where the Korean models were ordered from the lowest bidder. The Chinese mandolins were a bit more consistent and had a bit better tone and playability. Of course, a good setup was needed by retail delivery like most mandolins no matter where they are purchased.

**billkilpatrick** · Dec-11-2007, 11:51am

well, all that is good nrews - thanks a lot. now all i've got to do is learn to play it properly.

incidently, gibson europe responded to my e-mail, confirming chinese origin and antique finish.

thanks again - bill