What is a loat worth?

**bootinz** · Dec-04-2007, 9:45pm

Two '23's selling for around 200K, a '24 with Virzi for 150K? Am I wrong or does this seem to be rather wide range? I understand some dates have characteristics that make them more valuable. Even with these differences the price range seems a bit large. I'm asking because I'd like to be educated.
Thanks!

**bootinz** · Dec-04-2007, 9:47pm

Oops! I mean what is a LOAR worth!!!!!!!!

**Glassweb** · Dec-04-2007, 9:53pm

In the past four months Loars have sold for as high as $225K, but the "average" selling price hovers more comfortably around $200K. All of these were extremely nice examples - proving once again that the prime pieces bring the prime prices.

**Mandolusional** · Dec-04-2007, 9:55pm

I don't know about any Loars, I checked this thread to learn the value of a Loat!

**Big Joe** · Dec-04-2007, 10:53pm

I did not get much for my "loat", but I did get a good deal on car insurance

.

**markishandsome** · Dec-05-2007, 8:30am

There have been a couple of threads within the last few weeks on this exact topic. Scroll down the page and look for "Loar prices falling". I'll sell you my Loat for only $100k!

**bootinz** · Dec-05-2007, 9:04am

I sent the post in using my new iPhone. I guess I pushed the wrong letter! I'm suprised none of you have heard of Lloyd Loat? He was a famous hairdresser in the 20's.

**Links** · Dec-05-2007, 9:53am

Funny - those that have Loars insist that the prices are not going down - those that want to buy them (including me) insist that the bottom is dropping out. The truth is probably somewhere in between. Maybe we should hear from sone one who doesn't give a hoot!

I have a Loat for sale real cheap but it does have some wear on the gnozzle!

**f5loar** · Dec-05-2007, 10:12am

If you don't give a hoot then you ain't got the money to get one anyway. Actually you need to hear from the ones that can afford one and ask why are they not buying them at $150,000 and selling them the next week for $200,000.
I think it's the pickers vs. collectors market. Pickers want cheap prices and collectors want prime examples at any price. The $150,000 shows quite a bit of wear on it even though it is a fantastic virzi Loar. If it was a non-Virzi at $150,000 it would have sold without being listed.a
So in answer to your question, no the market is not going soft. There are deals going down at $200,000 to $250,000 that we here at the cafe will never hear about.

**powercat** · Dec-05-2007, 11:20am

Never heard of a Loat, but as a kid my teacher had a poster that said: "Be a lert, the world needs more lerts".

Could they be related?

**Darryl Wolfe** · Dec-05-2007, 12:03pm

Chris summed it up pretty nicely. Here is what I believe to be fact.

-The market is not falling
-The market has flattened
-The market is far more educated than it was even 10-15 years ago. The price for a Loar 15-25 years ago was the price for any Loar. Sound was generally the only discriminator
-Key players in the market now have their 2nd or 3rd Loar, the one they were looking for (it took 4 Loars before I found the one)
-The entire stringed instrument market now has a very broad range of values based on condition, originality, and certain details (think advanced scalloped braces on a Martin D, a 1935 D28 is worth 4-5X what a '45 D-28 is worth). In 1976 my refinished Loar was not priced differently from one totally original. It did not matter much then

**Glassweb** · Dec-05-2007, 12:16pm

What Darryl said... he nailed it in a nutshell.

**cooper4205** · Dec-05-2007, 5:43pm

Originally Posted by (f5journl @ Dec. 05 2007, 13:03)

In 1976 my refinished Loar was not priced differently from one totally original. It did not matter much then

that's crazy to imagine, especially since a refinished once can be half the price of an all original. Why do you think the attitude changed so much over time, is it just the fact they are even older (and more expensive) now, or that the Loar market is more educated at as a whole, or a little of both (or something entirely different?)

And who cares about price if you're gonna get one? you're buying a (very cool) piece of history that only a handful of people in the world have.

**Glassweb** · Dec-05-2007, 5:55pm

The folks buying Loars these days are DEFINITELY concerned about the price they'll pay... and they're only paying the price for the best examples circulating, which ain't that many!

**dirty harry** · Dec-05-2007, 5:59pm

A Loars worth is a very subjective topic. Hmmm, well my take on it is this. If you have the money, buy one that has standing. I mean documented history. They will only go up in value as fewer will be for sale. I met a fellow once that in the late 70's that paid under $20,000 for one. He was a School Teacher as I recall and allowed me to play his Loar at a Ca. festival. Nice to play and admire and boy did I like it. Cliff Sargent let me play one which I never figured out was real or an outstanding replica. Always for me was the task of raising children and working 9-5. My choice, with no regrets. Today there are many very fine builders, which equal or in some cases surpass old Lloyd. Not a put down, just my humble opinion.
Harry

**cooper4205** · Dec-05-2007, 6:16pm

Originally Posted by (Glassweb @ Dec. 05 2007, 18:55)

The folks buying Loars these days are DEFINITELY concerned about the price they'll pay... and they're only paying the price for the best examples circulating, which ain't that many!

I'm saying if someone is in the market for a Loar in the fist place, the fact that it's six digits isn't gonna be one of their main concerns (most likely).

Getting the best one they can for that kind of money would be, for sure; but anyone that is going to buy one is going to know and understand why they do cost what they do. If a picker was seriously considering buying one, then I would guess he wouldn't have a problem paying over $100k to get a good player, while a high-end collector probably wouldn't have any problem dropping over $200k on an extremely nice example of one.

All I know is, if I had the means to get even a refinished one, much less one that was all-original, I'd do it in a heartbeat and not regret it a bit. They ain't making anymore, that's for sure!

**Glassweb** · Dec-05-2007, 7:55pm

Originally Posted by (dirty harry @ Dec. 05 2007, 18:59)

Today there are many very fine builders, which equal or in some cases surpass old Lloyd.

I pretty much agree with what Harry says here. There are indeed, many fine builders who can certainly surpass the Loars in fit and finish. And it's true that not all of the Loar F5s are killer... although the majority of them are exceptionally beautiful and fine sounding mandolins with a "vibe" and feel that no other mandolin builder has totally captured... at least not for me. That said, the finest Loars that I've been fortunate enough to play were truly magical and could really justify the "holy grail of the mandolin" title. Some of the best I've played had Virzis and some didn't. But when people ask me if they should get a Loar or even a Fern I usually say "you have to ask yourself why you'd pay that kind of money for a mandolin when, for a fraction of their cost these days, you can get an absolutely FANTASTIC sounding and playing mandolin". It's true enough... and all Loar owners are aware of this. So I'll sum #up my feelings about the current Loar market like this - if the Loar you're considering buying doesn't sound $150K + better than the mandolin you're currently playing and is not very clean and original... well, don't blow your money! However, if you've got the means and you want a Loar and you come across an extremely nice, original example that sounds fantastic and keeps you awake at night thinking about it... well, don't hesitate too long... because these are the ones that are truly worth signing the check for. Perhaps...

**Links** · Dec-05-2007, 10:27pm

Tom, Darryl, Alan - I'm just pulling your chain a little, as I agree with most of what you all said. I have been around "collectibles" all my life, as my mother and aunt were antique dealers and I grew up around great "stuff". I like the best example of anything I buy and quite frankly, I think they are the best bargains at any price. However, I still contend that it is hard to look at your own situation objectively and I think whomever mentioned that it is hard to generalize hit the nail on the head. It is quite possible for the vintage market to go down (or be flat which is what Darryl said - and I agree), yet your specific Loar to remain steady or even go up.

**squirrelabama** · Dec-05-2007, 10:58pm

uh...hu, hu....you said Loats.....hu hu:p

**mrmando** · Dec-05-2007, 11:08pm

Originally Posted by (powercat @ Dec. 05 2007, 12:20)

Never heard of a Loat, but as a kid my teacher had a poster that said: "Be a lert, the world needs more lerts".

Wow man, that's like, freaky. So you had Bob Hayes for fourth grade too, huh?

**kudzugypsy** · Dec-06-2007, 12:33pm

IMO, i think people are missing the REASONING behind what has happened over the last year within ALL collectibles markets, not just Loars, but across the board - so WHY did the buyers dry up over night? why were people scrambling funds and leveraging equity to buy at $225K a year ago and now wont bite at $200K?

i just think the issue goes a lot deeper than supply and demand, which is what drove collectibles to these extreme levels - now, its about how to fund the purchase. gone is the *easy* money of the last 5-6 years where people just tapped into their home equity lines - that was, more than anything the major source of funds for many of these purchases, and why all of a sudden it dried up. i just dont think people pull $150K++ out of their savings accts to buy a mandolin to PLAY...to INVEST in, that is possible, but now that the investment appreciation is questionable (over the short term) - people are just waiting it out.
money follows money, it doesnt put it in idle return investments.

there are a lot of Loar owners who will be selling in the near future, owners who probably bought 20-30 years ago, and as they age, need the funds for other more urgent/necessary life expenses - it doesnt matter squat what Loars sold for in 2006 come 2020 - you've got to have BUYERS in order for these investments to appreciate (discounting inflation, etc)- and that is what seems to be absent in this market now.

**f5loar** · Dec-06-2007, 1:12pm

I'm holding out until 2040 to sell off my MAS accumalation or next divorce whichever comes first.

**powercat** · Dec-06-2007, 1:54pm

Originally Posted by (mrmando @ Dec. 05 2007, 23:08)

Originally Posted by (powercat @ Dec. 05 2007, 12:20)

Never heard of a Loat, but as a kid my teacher had a poster that said: "Be a lert, the world needs more lerts".

Wow man, that's like, freaky. So you had Bob Hayes for fourth grade too, huh?

No, but Mrs. Simpson was probably similar

**Glassweb** · Dec-06-2007, 2:26pm

Kudzu... how can you say Loar buyers won't bite now at $200K? A fantastic Loar was sold just a month ago at Gruhn's for that amount. Why did it sell while the current offerings are languishing... it's because the one at Gruhn's was EXACTLY the type of Loar that buyers are now looking for... super clean and original with excellent provenance and "the sound". The best examples are still going for record amounts and they seem to move fairly quickly. Those are the facts... good bait gets the big bites.