1954 gibson f5 -- very nice condition

**Bernie Daniel** · Dec-03-2007, 7:59pm

I am a bit surprised that this mandolin is up to $5K. #More than I might pay for it. But somebody has bid it.

Here it is.

It has the wide profile headstock, the wide (1&3/16") nut, the right bridge thumbscrews, tuners etc. and the serial number looks OK.

Nice shape too but from California what do you expect they don't salt the roads!

The case looks right too. #I think. #Neat mandolin.

Someone should tell Frank Greathouse about this! #

Maybe now he should try to sell his again.

**MikeEdgerton** · Dec-03-2007, 8:01pm

That's the bid history Bernie, here's the auction. garyb501 should be very pleased with his first eBay transaction.

**Dave Reiner** · Dec-03-2007, 8:05pm

Valued at $8-9K in the Vintage Guitar Price Guide, so $5K isn't out of line. I personally worry about a zero-feedback seller, though.

Dave

**Jim Garber** · Dec-03-2007, 8:24pm

Originally Posted by (dsreiner @ Dec. 03 2007, 21:05)

I personally worry about a zero-feedback seller, though.

I certainly understand that, but in any case for a transaction of that amount and above I would contact the seller early on perhaps get a phone number and talk about it. I did that with an F4 I bought on eBay. I talked on the phone to the seller as well as his luthier who did work on the mandolin. The transaction went quite smoothly.

OTOH I have walked away from a few other sellers -- even ones with lots of feedback -- because they were unreasonable: did not know about instruments but insisted that the sale was final no matter what.

**MikeEdgerton** · Dec-03-2007, 8:26pm

Originally Posted by (dsreiner @ Dec. 03 2007, 21:05)

Valued at $8-9K in the Vintage Guitar Price Guide, so $5K isn't out of line.

Don't live and die by that book.

**fatt-dad** · Dec-03-2007, 9:08pm

People love those pink cases!

f-d

**f5loar** · Dec-03-2007, 9:55pm

To the well-trained eye this mandolin has quite a bit wrong with it. For starters it's been refinished. Looks like an early 80's refinish by Gibson. Gibson would have never done a shade color finish like that in the 50's especially around the big scroll. 2nd I see a solid mahagony neck and the seller says it's 3 piece. Many of those early post war F5s had the solid mahagony necks. And no doubt the tailpiece has been changed out at some point. The 50's had the pull up clam shell type. It is missing the pickguard. The fingerboard extension looks to have been "scooped" and last few frets removed. All of these things make it not so desireable to collectors of these post war giants. The case is right, the truss rod cover looks right. With a re-finish even by Gibson you can throw those book prices out the door. Sometimes refinish on a vintage can effect price by half. I'd say the high bidder does not know all these things and I doubt the seller is willing to tell either!

**Bernie Daniel** · Dec-03-2007, 11:18pm

That's the bid history Bernie, here's the auction.

Opps!

When exactly did the wide profile headstock and the clam-shell tailpiece start?

Must have been 1951 because there is a 1950 F12 for sale right now at the Guitar Center with a slim profile neck and the wiggle edge tailpiece.

**cooper4205** · Dec-04-2007, 12:45am

Bernie-

are those the same clamshells that came on the A-jr.'s?

by the way, I'd rather drop $5k on this <a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/1921-Gibson-F4-Mandolin_W0QQitemZ120193080484QQihZ002QQcategoryZ1 0179QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrd
Z1QQcmdZViewItem" target="_blank">1921 F4</a> (but to each his own)

**Bernie Daniel** · Dec-04-2007, 7:25am

Originally Posted by

cooper4205: are those the same clamshells that came on the A-jr.'s?

The ones on the F-models looked like this:

**MikeEdgerton** · Dec-04-2007, 7:33am

Originally Posted by (cooper4205 @ Dec. 04 2007, 01:45)

are those the same clamshells that came on the A-jr.'s?

Yup, those were Waverly tailpieces and were used on mandolins made buy several makers from the teens into the 60's. It is basically the same tailpiece. Gibson just chose to engrave them at some point in time.

**fredfrank** · Dec-04-2007, 7:34am

I guess I'm not ebay savvy. Why would the same bidder outbid himself and run the bid from 2760 up to 5000?

**AlanN** · Dec-04-2007, 7:37am

Love dem pink cases, too!

**Dave Reiner** · Dec-04-2007, 8:25am

Originally Posted by (fredfrank @ Dec. 04 2007, 08:34)

I guess I'm not ebay savvy. Why would the same bidder outbid himself and run the bid from 2760 up to 5000?

... to meet the reserve price. #Eager bidder! #You can see the words "Reserve met" on the bidding history page.

Dave

**f5loar** · Dec-04-2007, 11:13am

Alan I love them pinks too! I've got a dozen of them I love them so much. Big Mon had one for many years. When Tut Taylor saw Big Mon was carrying his battered Loar in a well beaten held together by professional duct tape shape case he presented him with a 1962 Brown/pink F5 case with his name painted on the top. Those pink cases can set you back $500 in mint condition. I still think $5000 for a refinished 50's F5 with replaced tailpiece and scooped fingerboard and no pickguard is too much.

**Bernie Daniel** · Dec-04-2007, 9:52pm

Hmmmm now the bid price has dropped to $2124.

Seems someone has been watching the Mandolin Cafe!

Smile!

Link

**f5loar** · Dec-05-2007, 1:23am

Or it could be because the seller finally got around to admiting that oh by the way we failed to mention the mandolin was totally refinished by Gibson in 1982. After reading that little blopper addition I suspect that $5000 buyer withdrew his bid quickly. Now the question remains if the seller will lower their $5000 reserve to what it's really worth or hold steadfast that refinishing does not affect the value as they maintain. I saw where that refinsihed '20 F4 went for half price.

**Bernie Daniel** · Dec-05-2007, 5:32am

Originally Posted by

f5loar: Or it could be because the seller finally got around to admiting that oh by the way we failed to mention the mandolin was totally refinished by Gibson in 1982.

Yup. You called that one right on the nose! #It WAS refinished by Gibson in the 1980's!

Do you know for sure when the clamshell tailpiece and wide headstock started? #I ask because I saw a "confirmed" 1950 F12 with neither in the Guitar Center last week (however it did have the block "Gibson" inlay. #

But all of the '51 and '52's models I have seen do have both the clamshell and the wide headstock.

I know the wide headstock with block "Gibson" continued until 1969 but how long did they use the clamshell tailpiece?

Maybe it is just a case of the typical thing with Gibson's habit of using up stock parts. #

The F-models restarted production in 1949 after WWII so maybe there were still some necks around from pre-war days?

Just a missing piece of Gibson history I have always wondered about.

**f5loar** · Dec-05-2007, 10:41pm

I would be leary of the word "confirmed" being used by so called experts. There's only a handfull of Gibson mandolin experts still living and to my knowledge none of them work at the Guitar Center. I think that's what got that lady with the 1915 F5 in trouble with her confirmed free appraisal by a guy passing through town. A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing!
Clams started in the post war starting in early 1948 with the F12 and the first post war F5s in late 1949. They continued to use the clams until late 1958. Anything before that with the regular slide off TP has been replaced like this particular 1954 F5. Look for signs of little plugged screw holes as many were changed out since many just didn't like the clams. Harder to change strings and no real place to tie your strap to. The headstock got wider in early 1951 and stayed wide until late 1969 with maybe a few let out in early 1970 as they made the change over back to the thinner heads. You could custom order the F12 with block inlays but it usually still had the shorter fingerboard.

**Bernie Daniel** · Dec-06-2007, 5:28am

Exactly what I wanted to know. #Thanks a bundle! Have you ever considered writing book on history of the Gibson F-style? #Seems like you could do so.

I had a '52 F12 with a brass wiggle edge -- later I bought a brass clamshell somewhere and converted mine back.

Your right about the extra screw holes. #

But as for the strap. #Someone had drilled a hole in the bottom of the base plate of the tailpiece so I just fixed up an ebony peg from StewMac with macnine screw attached it that way. #Looks & works good.

**f5loar** · Dec-07-2007, 12:41pm

Looks like the refinished '54 F5 has found a new home for $5000. I would think it was not someone here on the cafe that has read our comments. While the owner/seller did find the pickguard it was uncertain if it was the original '54 guard or a newer 80's guard. With the scooped out fingerboard it might not fit anyway.

**Bernie Daniel** · Dec-07-2007, 12:52pm

Originally Posted by

f5loar: Looks like the refinished '54 F5 has found a new home for $5000.

Amazing! #Well more power to the seller and new buyer might get wise if they every want to sell it again.

Meanwhile a perfectly good 1989 F5L was languishing on eBay at about $3000 and a 20's F4 at even less.

Amazing.