Can you fake a break by..

[Bitterroot]

There are so many songs to learn to fit into a local bluegrass jam or at least blend in. I'm able to figure out the I,IV,V of most tunes but trying to learn all the breaks is probably going to take a lifetime. Can you fake a break skillfully and without getting stink eye from other players by using the pentatonic scale, or is that classified as noodling?

[Mike Bunting]

If you know your arpeggios you can fake them pretty well. The melody lines of most bluegrass tunes are pretty much arpeggio based, strong beats are on chord tones. You'll be able to hear them pretty easily in a littlewhile.

[Andrew Reckhart]

Everybody fakes it a high percentage of the time. We just call it improvisation!

[homeslice]

I hope not.....that's what I do!

[Clyde Clevenger]

As I have no memory, I'd be in big trouble without faking it.

[Kevin Briggs]

You absolutely fake it. However, try to stick to the melody. Don't worry about copying breaks note for note in order to play them every time a song is played at your jam. You'll get sick of it, and so will those people you play with. Play your own break.

[mandroid]

never get to the land of BG purists, those would be a long ways from here.
[or having heard my playing , keep it a secret]
But if you can manage a melodic resemblance of the chorus and/or
a verse, I cannot see why others would have a spastic fit.

[Andrew Lewis]

I would suggest practicing at home along with some straightforward songs with typical chord progressions like I Am A Pilgrim, I'm Going Back to Old Kentucky, or Little Cabin Home on the Hill and play around the melodies a bunch. The more you do this, the more you'll start finding interesting ways to add variations and little style tricks to give it some flair without leaving the skeleton melody line. Maybe you'll pick up some nice tricks from the recording you're listening to as well. Playing along with records has been among the best things I've done for my playing.

[cooper4205]

I have pretty good success 'faking' a break out of the chop chord shapes. You can really move the Monroe licks around once you figure them out in a closed position like that. Alot of it, too, is getting used to what kind of licks to use and when and where to fit them in.

[CollingsPicker]

that is really true:blues:

[lgc]

You can't do it skillfully with just the pentatonic. You need the flat 7 and the flat third at least. Blues involves micro tones and if you listen to blues players, none use the pentatonic that I know of. Most use a 10 tone scale with a lot of passing an micro tones. Can you fake it without getting the stink eye? Depends on who's in the jam.

[Andrew Lewis]

You can't do it skillfully with just the pentatonic. #You need the flat 7 and the flat third at least. #Blues involves micro tones and if you listen to blues players, none use the pentatonic that I know of. #Most use a 10 tone scale with a lot of passing an micro tones. #Can you fake it without getting the stink eye? #Depends on who's in the jam.

...but it depends on the song, too. Blues based song? You bet - a pentatonic would leave a lot to be desired (but at least you wouldn't hit any terrible notes), so you'll want to work on throwing those blues notes in there for those songs. But on the non-bluesy songs and fiddle tunes, the pentatonic's a good place to start.

[Fretbear]

You can actually work up "generic" breaks based on the chord changes. When in doubt imagine what a Scruggs' style banjo player would play and try to emulate that using double-stopped tremolos instead of rolls. Alot of people try to play this music "their own way' before they take the time to really study it deeply and dig out what it is really made up of. The straighter you play the beginning and middle of your break, the more dramatic the ending can be when you "blues out" on the trail out (that's where pentatonics really come in handy, pure minor over major, for instance G major pentatonic played from E to shining E with the flat 5 (E blues scale) over a break in E major.Tony Rice has said that he always knows when he hears someone's playing whether or not they have listened to classic bluegrass played by Flatt, Scruggs & Monroe and Jimmy Martin, J.D. Crowe, etc.

[Ken Sager]

I'd say you have a much better shot at faking a convincing break by using the pentatonic scales, not just scale. I, IV, V pentatonic scales are needed over each I, IV, V chord. As mentioned, learn to add the Dom 7 and flat 3 of each scale too. Also, as mentioned, do your best to mimic the melody rather than simply play pentatonic licks.

Best,
Ken

[mandocrucian]

Blues involves micro tones and if you listen to blues players, none use the pentatonic that I know of.

That's nonsense in regards to blues and pentatonics. #What do you think the "blues scale" is? #It's the minor pentatonic, with the addition of the b5.

G major pentatonic = G A B D E G or #1 2 3 5 6 1

relative minor of the key of G is E minor. #Play the same notes in the G (major) Pentatonic, and you have the.....

E minor pentatonic = E G A B D E or 1 b3 4 5 b7 1 (in relation the the E root)
E blues scale = E G A Bb B D E or 1 b3 4 b5 5 b7 1

Recycle the E blues scale back to a G root, and you have the G pentatonic with the added #2(b3)

G major pentatonic = G A A#/Bb B D E G or #1 2 #2/b3 3 5 6 1

meaning......, that all the E blues scale and Em pent scale patterns, regardless if the Bb note is included, are still good for G, provided you end your phrase on a note that sounds good with a G chord, or what ever the chord in the progression is.

As far as the microtones are concerned, that gives more color and expression to the whole shebang. You can bend from most of the notes in the minor/blues pent b3, 4, b5, b7 and it's going to sound fine. A lot of blues players will (mostly) fret the blues scale pitches and then get the other notes of the scale by bending from that skeletal framework.... root up to the 2nd.

Also, it's not just either major pentatonic, or just the minor pentatonic. If you're in G, you may use the G major pentatonic licks in one place, and then decide to use Gm pent (blues) licks elsewhere, or wobble back and forth between them.

(Also keep in mind that there are at several more "pentatonic scales" which are commonly used. These may only have one note different than the two previously mentioned. (i.e. 1 2 3 5 b7 dominant pentatonic). Or you may also think of those as chromatically modifying the two primary pentatonics. (i.e. 1 2 b3 5 6 = dorian pentatonic).

And....while you may be working off the pentatonic as your primary mental framework, the occasional insertion of a passing diatonic scale note (say, the 2nd or the 6th in the minor; ) or even a chromatic, is no big deal.

But the first thing you need to do before you try BSing your way through a break is learn the melody of the tune first. How are you going to play a break for a particular song, if you can't even play the melody of it? If you have the melody inside your head, when you do throw in some substitute licks or ideas, you can find your way back to the tune and the whole thing will make a lot more "sense" to the listener. You need to be able to wade in the water before you jump into the middle of the lake over your head.

Niles H

[Bitterroot]

sheesh after reading that...its like you don't want me to play. "lets see He thinks it will take a lifetime to learn tunes well I'll show him just how scary learning all the crazy forms of pentatonic scales are...muahhha! Run away wannabe included in a jam boy!" I still have your book though.

I usually have most of the tunes in my head that I hear in jams. And I find that if I pick quietly to myself in the second row I can find and play the verse and chorus before the second verse if over. I was told pentatonics were the way to go...so I was asking the cafe if it is true. I guess the answer is "kinda".

[mandroid]

in short : sing along with the melody, and then play what you sing.

sing hum, scat, Do re mi fa so la ti do ... etc.

[Peter Hackman]

I was going to say almost the same as Niles: apart from being nothin' but a good man feelin' bad #the blues is really a chromatized version of the minor pentatonic. Plus bends.

Also: no matter how far you stray from "the melody", it's always a good thing to know it first. Plus other characteristics of the song, e.g., rhythm.

I once owned a sampler LP of Thelonius Monk's music. Straight No Chaser
and Blue Monk were on it. Both are blues in Bb, they elaborate on similar melodic motifs, one by deformation, the other by transposition. I swear you could drop the pickup at random on the two tracks
and tell which was which.

[mboucher]

On Music Moose Anthony gives two lessons on 'How to Fake a Break'

How" target="_blank">http://www.musicmoose.org/index.p....A Break

How to Fake A Break II

Mark

[MikeEdgerton]

Faking a break.... actually I find the term hysterical. Just take a break, if it works, fine. If it doesn't then try again the next time around. What would life be if we all played the same break on every song?

[jmcgann]

Don't think of it as "faking a break". What you are doing is creating a new melody. Try to make that melody good and strong, whether it relates to the original melody or takes off from it. It's a better idea than "here's THIS lick, and now here's THAT lick". Keep high standards for yourself and you'll improve over time

[lgc]

"If you're in G, you may use the G major pentatonic licks in one place, and then decide to use Gm pent (blues) licks elsewhere, or wobble back and forth between them."

"Nonesense." Thank you. I appreciate your kind words. I also appreciate you agreeing with me in the end. By your admission, You will use licks that sound like like the minor and major pent. You are not using two scales, only one. You can think of it that way but I think it is confusing. The poster asked about "the pentatonic scale" meaniing a 5 tone scale. What blues guys only use 5 tones when they play?

[CES]

"A wrong note played timidly..."

[Bigtuna]

So I have some charts of arpeggios and I still have not gotten around to studing/using them, sometimes I just get so overwhelmed with all there is to learn! So, how do you guys approach arpeggios? Do you work through them like a scale, are they more or less a scale? I guess what I'm asking is, how is an arpeggio different from a scale?
Sorry, I never really was all that good with the theory side of things.

And as far as faking a break, I try to hum in my head how I think it should go. Two things I remember someone telling me was: "if you can say it, you can play it" and "fake it till you make it". One break I've been faking for a while is Ronnie's break on "Graveyard Shift" (Steve Earle), I still can't get it right. Does anyone know a good starting place for that?

[mandocrucian]

"lets see He thinks it will take a lifetime to learn tunes well I'll show him just how scary learning all the crazy forms of pentatonic scales are...muahhha! Run away wannabe included in a jam boy!"

Bitteroot: the only part of my post that was meant for you was the last paragraph. The rest of it addressed the assertion that blues players don't use pentatonics, which is just misinformation. Did you see anything from your original post in the section?

Ah to hell with it.... just git 'er dun!.


Hey, somebody send me a bottle of darvon (see gifts for teachers thread) for Christmas.