Buying through the mail

**Ron O** · Nov-09-2007, 9:04am

How unusual is it to not be allowed an inspection period on an instrument?
I wanted to buy an old Gibson "A" and the dealer said, "NO inspection period".
Should I be worried?

**jaydee** · Nov-09-2007, 9:07am

Take a pass on that mandolin. I think 48 hours approval is pretty standard, sometimes 24. But if the seller won't allow an approval period it sends up some major red flags to me.

Jeremy

**Ron O** · Nov-09-2007, 9:12am

What if it were one of the sponsors of this site?
Does that improve my chances?

**Rick Smith** · Nov-09-2007, 9:14am

I'm with jaydee on this one!

**testore** · Nov-09-2007, 9:20am

Especially for a Gibson.The sound quality can be all over the map. I don't know a single builder who doesn't allow at least 48 hours.

**Walter Newton** · Nov-09-2007, 9:21am

I agree, I'd look for something from one of the many dealers and private sellers out there who allow an approval period.

**MikeEdgerton** · Nov-09-2007, 9:27am

Originally Posted by (Ron O @ Nov. 09 2007, 10:12)

What if it were one of the sponsors of this site?
Does that improve my chances?

Although I dearly and truly love each and every sponsor of this site (and I have done business with many of them) as it makes it possible for Scott to provide this wonderful online experience, no.

**Ron O** · Nov-09-2007, 9:34am

Actually, I was thinking of buying another instrument from this same dealer. I guess I should wait to see what is sent before I do this. It seemed odd to not be allowed an inspection, but the dealer said he doesn't like to send old instruments back and forth and he had others that were waiting to buy it. I have read good things about this dealer on this site, so I trusted him.
Does this site have a feature that allows providing reviews of buying experiences?

**woodwizard** · Nov-09-2007, 10:02am

It's a gamble. How lucky do you feel

**MikeEdgerton** · Nov-09-2007, 10:05am

People post reviews about their experiences with retailers quite often. Here's one. A search using the name of the retailer you're buying from as a keyword will probably turn up some threads.

**billhay4** · Nov-09-2007, 10:06am

An instrument is for playing. If you can't play it before you buy, take a pass. I don't care who the dealer is.
Bill

**Jonathan Peck** · Nov-09-2007, 10:21am

Originally Posted by (Ron O @ Nov. 09 2007, 10:12)

What if it were one of the sponsors of this site?
Does that improve my chances?

Improve your chances of what? I would never give in to the hard sell, no matter how desireable the instrument is.

The retailer gave you the conditions in which he would sell you the instrument and also why he didn't want to offer a trial period in this particular instance. You have to decide if you want to accept those conditions or walk away. Sounds like good communication to me

If you want to know what I'd do, I'd tell the retailer that I'm very interested in the instrument although I will require a reasonable trial period. I would then give them my contact information and ask them to call me if the other sale doesn't work out and they change their mind about the trial period.

**Kevin Briggs** · Nov-09-2007, 10:23am

Trust me, you don't want a mail order catastrophe that involves something out of state. I had something like that a few years ago, and although I won in the end, it took forever and it was a strain on my blood pressure and time. I'd go for the most reliable, most accomodating dealer. If the dealer you are mentioning won't accomodate you - his or her customer - just find one who will. There are nice used mandolins everywhere.

Here's some good dealers to work with: http://www.themandolinstore.com/Scripts/default.asp
Here's another: http://www.giannaviolins.com/esmando/home.html
Here's another: http://www.elderly.com
Here's one more: http://www.acousticmusicworks.com/

**Big Joe** · Nov-09-2007, 11:16am

When I was at Gibson the retail store did not give an approval period. Corporate policy and the way the POS system worked did not allow that. On the other hand, if one purchased a mandolin (or whatever) and did not like it, we would gladly exchange it for another and would ensure they were happy with the purchase. I can only remember one time when a person purchased an instrument and asked for it to be exchanged. It was for something very minor that we took care of and quickly resold the mandolin. They guy got his new one and was very happy with both the store and the instrument. Whether you can buy with confidence on the net depends upon who you are dealing with and what your expectations are. Even dealers that do not give a trial period will usually allow a trade for a different instrument if you are not happy.

**mythicfish** · Nov-09-2007, 11:43am

Turn around
Walk away
Don't give it another thought

**Wesley** · Nov-09-2007, 12:46pm

Yup - There are too many mandolins for sale out there to buy a pig in a poke. Keep walking.

**foldedpath** · Nov-09-2007, 2:10pm

Originally Posted by (Big Joe @ Nov. 09 2007, 12:16)

Whether you can buy with confidence on the net depends upon who you are dealing with and what your expectations are. Even dealers that do not give a trial period will usually allow a trade for a different instrument if you are not happy.

I can understand that from the retailer's perspective, but it's not very practical (IMO) from the buyer's perspective, especially someone who is already shopping online and out of state. If an instrument doesn't work out, the next-best choice is likely to be from another dealer.

Absent any other factors (like a one-of-a-kind that can't be found elsewhere), a buyer has no incentive to choose a store with a trades-only policy, when others are offering trial periods.

**MikeEdgerton** · Nov-09-2007, 2:18pm

Originally Posted by (Big Joe @ Nov. 09 2007, 12:16)

When I was at Gibson the retail store did not give an approval period....

How many people bought instruments mail-order from the showcase?

**JEStanek** · Nov-09-2007, 2:46pm

Many people sell these older instruments marked "As Is" especially if the price is very attractive (means there are issues that likely need addressing). Here we don't know the vendor or the state of the instrument in question. This is a potential downside of buying an instrument through the mail.

A lot of posters said builders provide a trial period... this isn't a builder this is a vintage Gibson with who knows what kind of case. We don't know too much about the potential deal being discussed.

I would recommend, and this is what I would do in your shoes wanting an old Gibson, is talk to Charles Johnson of
Vintage Mandolin.com. Tell him your budget and sound goals. I know a couple of people who have bought from him this way and had positive experiences. He has a wide selection and many price points. He can probably fill your vintage Gibson need. He has a 48 hour approval period.

Good luck.

Jamie

**Big Joe** · Nov-09-2007, 2:52pm

Actually we sold a good number of high end mandolins through the mail or phone with that policy. As a buyer I can see wanting a return policy, but we were not afforded that luxury at Gibson. Once you purchased something, you had purchased it. We were allowed to exchange for another one, but not do refunds (and yes, it is legal and there are no laws with 3 days to turn it down). From a seller's perspective it works great. I did not have the oppurtunity to alter the policy, but it was almost never an issue with anyone. We had great product and did not have to worry about it. Our instruments were set up after sale so we knew what condition they would arrive in. Again, with all the instruments sold that way, only one returned for an exchange and he loves his mandolin. Remember, we sold more Gibson instruments than any other store in the world and for years were the top bluegrass dealer on the planet. We sold LOTS of instruments that way.

**Frank Russell** · Nov-09-2007, 2:56pm

Try Buffalo Bros. in Carlsbad, CA. You can have Chris or Steve play one over the phone, and they back up their instruments. They rarely stock any duds, especially with the vintage instruments. Frank

**lovethemf5s** · Nov-09-2007, 3:11pm

If you return your purchase to Buffalo Bros. you must pay shipping charges both ways and they deduct the credit card fees from your refund. I think this is a fair policy but it would make me carefully consider my decision to return the item for refund.

**Stephen Perry** · Nov-10-2007, 7:04am

Be sure to read all terms and conditions. We have an issue now where a buyer thinks the deal is over, but under our terms and conditions we have his instrument (broken in shipping) and he has breached our contract by running a chargeback. Under our terms and conditions, we can turn his account directly over to a collection agency. Should we do that we will get all funds and he will be paying about $2000 in fees and charges over the cost of the instrument. We won't do this, of course, assuming the check from the carrier for breakage arrives, but there was no need for all this excitement! And don't think that sellers won't enforce such agreements, and don't think that courts won't enforce venue clauses!

If there are no terms and conditions, look to the commercial code for answers. Don't guess!!!

As far as "as is" "no return" - well, that's fair on closeout stuff. Lower price, but you take the risk. I do that kind of buying on a regular basis - but I prefer my old junky violins to arrive without someone else trying to fix them. Got a 17th C Italian fiddle for $225 that way - little pieces.

**red7flag** · Nov-10-2007, 7:56am

Communication even in a wonderful place like the cafe is a hit or miss proposition. I know that my understanding of posts now two years into being is a great deal different than when I first came here. There is often an unwritten meaning to many things said here. When I first sold something in the classifieds I learned by questions submitted to me some information that I needed to put in the ad. I was not with holding anything, just did not think to put it in. Now I have a much better grasp at how I would describe and instrument and it's strengths and weaknesses. My goal is not just to sell the instrument, but to find a good fit for the instrument. My ethics have been enhanced by my participation in the cafe. While I would feel more comfortable buying from a Cafe member, I would not agree to a condition to a sale that would be different than I would outside of the Cafe. Especially an older instrument, I would have to have the right to refuse. It may look great in pictures and in description, but only in my hands can I truly evaluate it for me. A "minor" blemish in the description may crawl all over me and make my experience totally unpleasant. Or a blemish may just make the instrument more endearing, kind of a flop-eared mule. In the end, only I can know what works. I would have to play it and see.
Tony

**Folkmusician.com** · Nov-14-2007, 8:23pm

As far as I can tell, the liberal return policy/trial period is a fairly recent thing. I don't remember everyone offering money back guarantees 20 years ago. But here we are in 2007, and it is a standard policy among retailers. Our return policy allows 14 days from the delivery date to the postmarked return date. In that time period you can return the instrument and receive a full refund. You pay return shipping only. This is a pretty average policy among dealers now. It is great for the customer, not so great for us. The problem with this policy is that we incur a lot of expense when something is returned. We are out the cost of shipping (we give free shipping to the customer), packaging, credit card fees and a large investment of time. It is also difficult to deal with returns. You wouldn't think it would be so involved, but there is updating inventory levels, giving refunds, accounting issues, etc. It is even worse with a one of a kind item. When all is said and done, we are out an average of $50.00 per returned instrument. Also, many people are not careful with the instruments and do not pack the returns well, not de-tuning them, leaving out extra padding we might put around a headstock, etc.. I can see why a dealer might offer an instrument with no trial period. There is a good change that there are no ill-intentions and the dealer just doesn't want the hassle. It would be strange if they offered a trial period on other instruments they sale and just not this particular one.

As a buyer you have a lot of options. Even if the dealer has legitimate reasons for not offering a trial, it does not mean you should go along with it.

I have bought things like this and been ripped off. I have also bought things like this and gotten very good deals.