Results 1 to 8 of 8

Thread: What does a renaissance mandolin sound like

  1. #1
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Hamburg, Pennsylvania
    Posts
    1,247

    Default

    Check out this eBay at for a recently made Renaissance-style mandolin, along with a sound file of it being played. The ad ends today, so it may not be available, but it's very interesting to hear what one of these might sound like. Very different sort of sound. Note that the strings are gut (or nylon), and the frets are tied on, like the frets of a Renaissance-era lute. Is this the sound Vivaldi had in mind when he wrote for the mandolin? Seems to me that the round-backed mandolin is in this tradition of sound, but most of us prefer something quite different. Anyway, definitely worth a look and a listen.

  2. #2
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Westchester, NY
    Posts
    30,753

    Default

    Even if the auction is over the link will still remain for a week or so. A link here would certainly help in this discussion. There have been discussions before of Vivaldi's mandolin music. Generally it is thought that the it was ona gut-strung instrument like the one you are describing and tuned in fourths, not fifths. Probably also double strung like this repro by Daniel Larson:




    Jim

    My Stream on Soundcloud
    Facebook
    19th Century Tunes
    Playing lately:
    1924 Gibson A4 - 2018 Campanella A-5 - 2007 Brentrup A4C - 1915 Frank Merwin Ashley violin - Huss & Dalton DS - 1923 Gibson A2 black snakehead - '83 Flatiron A5-2 - 1939 Gibson L-00 - 1936 Epiphone Deluxe - 1928 Gibson L-5 - ca. 1890s Fairbanks Senator Banjo - ca. 1923 Vega Style M tenor banjo - ca. 1920 Weymann Style 25 Mandolin-Banjo - National RM-1

  3. #3
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    95

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by (jgarber @ Oct. 31 2007, 08:09)
    A link here would certainly help in this discussion.
    I think this is the one:

    <a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/Stradivarius-Mandolin-Copy-Free-Shipping-w-Buy-It-Now_W0QQitemZ270179923157QQihZ017QQcateg
    oryZ10179QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem" target="_blank">http://cgi.ebay.com/Stradiv....iewItem</a>

  4. #4
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Windsor, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    125

    Default

    to be fair, Vivaldi lived and composed in the Baroque period (1600 - 1750), not the Renaissance aprox 1400 - 1600).
    During the Renaissance, there were many different and varied styles of lutes with no widely accepted standards for size configuration or tunings. And tho the word 'mandolin' or variations of the term were used in the 17th and 18th centurys, The "mandolin" we know today really didn't catch on till the 1750's - the very end of the Baroque period. So it's more likely that Vivaldi composed for some sort of small double coursed lute not unlike the examples shown.



    it's a box with strings. If it's a well made box, It'll play?

  5. #5
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Westchester, NY
    Posts
    30,753

    Default

    Here is an actual Stradivari mandolin at The National Music Museum.
    Jim

    My Stream on Soundcloud
    Facebook
    19th Century Tunes
    Playing lately:
    1924 Gibson A4 - 2018 Campanella A-5 - 2007 Brentrup A4C - 1915 Frank Merwin Ashley violin - Huss & Dalton DS - 1923 Gibson A2 black snakehead - '83 Flatiron A5-2 - 1939 Gibson L-00 - 1936 Epiphone Deluxe - 1928 Gibson L-5 - ca. 1890s Fairbanks Senator Banjo - ca. 1923 Vega Style M tenor banjo - ca. 1920 Weymann Style 25 Mandolin-Banjo - National RM-1

  6. #6

    Default

    This type gets frequent discussion at the classical section of the board. #I helped Scott put together this eye-candy page and own the piece by Faria pictured there.

    There are a few practical issues with the eBay piece. #First, as already alluded, there wasn't any instrument called "mandolin" during the renaissance. #What he's actually built is inspired by a baroque-era aesthetic, similar to what Vivaldi would have used. #The tuning of such things is pretty well documented and the common type was not ordinarily tuned to high e''. #Standard tuning in five courses would have been b-e'-a'-d''-g''. #The clip sounds to me like the instrument is badly out of tune, the frets are badly positioned, or both. #The type really doesn't sound so jarring. #Download the sample by Ensemble Baschenis under the "Classical" tab of the mp3 page for a more in-tune example. #For many more examples, search up some of the rather long lists of CDs I've posted on the classical forum. #One very practical consideration regarding the eBay piece: the builder has either reversed the photos or arranged the pegs incorrectly. #Note on the eye candy page or on the Cutler-Challen mandolin by Stradivari as linked by Jim above, the peg nearest the nut on all the fixed-bridge mandolins is positioned on the bass side of the instrument to not inhibit the movement of the hand in first position.




  7. #7
    Chief Moderator/Shepherd Ted Eschliman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Nebraska
    Posts
    4,382
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by (Eugene @ Oct. 31 2007, 09:47)
    There are a few practical issues with the eBay piece. #First, as already alluded, there wasn't any instrument called "mandolin" during the renaissance. #
    Oh, great. Now you guys are going to tell me Elvis didn't really invent the blues, either...
    Ted Eschliman

    Author, Getting Into Jazz Mandolin

  8. #8

    Default

    Well, reserve not met.

    ...And no, Ted, I think credit for the blues goes to Matteo Carcassi (not really, but he did make pretty daring use of the "blue note" in his capricci).

    ...And for more info on the mandolins of Vivaldi's time, see:

    Baines, Anthony. 1966. European and American Musical Instruments. Viking Press, New York.
    (Baines is a good reference but a little problematic in cataloguing a number of 4th-tuned, fixed-bridge mandolins using "mandore" as a modern term of convenience to differentiate from modern, Neapolitan-derived types: see Morey 1993; Tyler 1981; and Tyler & Sparks 1989, 1992.)

    Morey, Stephen. 1993. Mandolins of the 18th Century. Editrice Turris, Cremona.

    Timmerman, Alex. 1994. De Mandoline en de Gitaar door de Eeuwen Heen. AETii-Producties, Zwolle, Netherlands.
    (In Dutch, but recent and worth pursuit even if only for the measurements and visual choronology alone.)

    Tyler, James. 1981 The Italian Mandolin and Mandola 1589-1800. Early Music 9(4):438-446.

    Tyler, James & Paul Sparks. 1989, 1992. The Early Mandolin. Clarendon Press, Oxford.

Similar Threads

  1. Renaissance solos
    By in forum Orchestral, Classical, Italian, Medieval, Renaissance
    Replies: 4
    Last: Jun-05-2007, 9:24am
  2. Renaissance options
    By jarhead122 in forum Orchestral, Classical, Italian, Medieval, Renaissance
    Replies: 7
    Last: Feb-10-2007, 10:22pm
  3. Renaissance piece on laptop mandolin
    By lightnbrassy in forum Orchestral, Classical, Italian, Medieval, Renaissance
    Replies: 10
    Last: Dec-21-2006, 4:54am
  4. Need Renaissance sheetmusic
    By gnelson651 in forum Orchestral, Classical, Italian, Medieval, Renaissance
    Replies: 9
    Last: May-10-2005, 8:14am
  5. renaissance music for mandolin
    By billkilpatrick in forum Orchestral, Classical, Italian, Medieval, Renaissance
    Replies: 18
    Last: Oct-13-2004, 8:30am

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •