New strings for an old bowlback

[MLT]

Hi all,

I purchased an old (maybe 70 years) Bowlback this weekend on Ebay. #Got it for a song and there is not discernable damage. #Although I bought it primarily as a decorator piece, I find myself wanting to play it. #

My question is, can I use D'Addario J73s? #These are the lightest strings I can find locally. #Will they be OK?

Thanks,

[Jim Garber]

1937 bowlback? Most likely much older than that like closer to 90-100. I would not use j-73s. The heaviest I have used were J-62s.

Preferable to them would be GHS A240s. Just strings has them, and they will ship pretty quickly. Why do you have to buy locally. Even the biggest of stores near me have a dismal selection of mandolin strings.

If you get into the bolwback sound you can go to the higher-priced strings: Calaces, Thomastiks and the like.

BTW what kind of bowlback is it?

[MLT]

Jim,

Thanks for the reply. I looked loacally simply becuase I don't want to wait. But, I guess I will make a quick order to Just Strings . I usually do a healthy mix of on-line vs. local store shopping (not super store shopping however). I have a couple of small music stores where the people, customer service, and talk are just great and I like to do my part to keep these guys around.

As to the age of the mandolin, I can only go on what the seller had to say on Ebay.

This is a neapolitan style mandolin. Since I'm selling it for a friend, I have to go on what he's told me.
The owner claims that it's at least 70 years old, as he got it when he was a kid.

There is no discernable manufacturer's name on the outside or inside.

As you can see from the pics, the case has seen better days. But the instrument is very clean. It appears to have been played very little, as there is no fret wear.
As expected for an old instrument, the face has some fine checking in the finish, but it's not noticeable unless you get real close. With the exception of the handle on the case, I can't see anything that's broken. The scale is 12 7/8".

Maybe someone here can identifiy the maker, but there are no identifying marks, stickers or tags. I plan on cleaning it up so when I have the strings off (carefully noting where the bridge is supposed to be) I will look inside better.

Also, I noticed that the strings ride on the top along the way to the bridge. This seems odd to me, could something be missing? And, I noticed that some of the strings are wrapped down at the tail piece, do I need to account for this as well when I change strings?

Here are some pics:

[MLT]

Here is on of the case...

[MLT]

And one of the back...

[Jim Garber]

Looks like a lowend Lyon & Healy product. They used that headstock on the midrange American Conservatory and on other lines.

[labraid]

I noticed that the strings ride on the top along the way to the bridge.

On their way to the bridge from the tailpiece? A warped top maybe?

And, I noticed that some of the strings are wrapped down at the tail piece, do I need to account for this as well when I change strings?

Do you mean wrapped with a sort of fine thread?

[Tim2723]

The shadow of the strings suggests that they're not touching, but there looks to be a decided dip in the top behind the bridge. #Hard to tell. #Can you give us a pic from the side looking down?

Perhaps you mean that the top of the mandolin is angled down between the bridge and the tailpiece? #That is normal.

Many strings have a thread-like winding for an inch or two at the loop end, often the four lowest strings. #Is that what you mean?

The lightest weight T.I. strings would be very gentle on it. #J-73's could be dangerous. Anything heavier might easily turn it into bad kindling wood and would be right out.

[MLT]

Thanks for the info. #Yes, I am talking about the "threads" that are wrapped around the strings if I were to buy the GHS 240's as Jim suggested, would they come with the threads? #I am just curious now, as I have taken a closer look accross the top and can see that the top is sunken (slightly but enough) at the bridge so that the strings do ride the top on the way. #

I have loosened the strings to relevie the pressure on the bridge, and now will put this one up on the ledge. #No great loss as I had planned on it being a decorator peice anyway. #I will have to find another one to play and try.

Thanks to Jim, OldTymer, and Tim for your thoughts and comments.

[aries753]

If you really want to try an put strings on it, check the string gauges and buy single guitar strings at you local store. Hopefully they will have the sizes you need all from the same maker.
Thats what I did with a bowlback Orpheum mandolin that I bought. It's that instant gratification thing.

I did buy the GHS ultra lights but have not changed them yet.

[Martin Jonas]

The string windings are essentially cosmetic, with maybe a tiny bit of string dampening effect at the tailpiece (but that can be achieved by other means). In days gone past, they were very common, but almost all manufacturers have by now decided that the minor benefits don't justify the additional cost of putting them on. Flatwound strings (Thomastic and La Bella) tend to have fabric windings, as do Optima strings. I wouldn't worry about it.

Regarding the strings touching the top between tailpiece and bridge, this is not that uncommon in old bowlbacks. They have low bridges and the string breaking angle is provided mostly by the angle of the cant rather than (as in flattop or arched mandolins) the bridge elevation. As a result, even when they were new and with the bridge in the correct position for intonation, the strings were running almost parallel to the top with only a few millimetres distance. Even less on de Meglio type bowlbacks which have a string downholder pressing the strings to almost touching distance to the top.

Actual touching can happen for two reasons:

- Your bridge may be out of position. If the bridge is too far forward of the cant, then the strings will touch the cant and run along the top all the way to the tailpiece. Looking at the photos, that doesn't seem to be the case on yours, but once you have new strings you'll have to set the bridge position from scratch anyway.

- There may be a bulge outward between bridge and tailpiece. That's a common enough resonse to a century of string tension, and within reason of no great concern. Depending on the original trigonometry of the cant angle and bridge height, you can get actual contact between bridge and top even with a very slight bulge. I've had a few bowlbacks with strings touching the top, and haven't noticed any adverse effects.

Martin

[Jim Garber]

If you really want to try an put strings on it, check the string gauges and buy single guitar strings at you local store.

The big problem with single guitar strings is that they are no doubt ball end. Save yourself the trouble and order the GHS. They are cheap enough and juststrings will get them to you pretty fast.