Toneguards and varnished mandolin

**Mark Richardson** · Sep-28-2007, 10:54am

I have a new San Juan mandolin built by Bobby Wintringham this past spring. My friend has a toneguard on his Weber Gallatin and insists that I should get one for my San Juan. I have looked at a couple, but the manufacturer cautions using a toneguard on varnished instruments. I have a laquered Eastman MD814 that I keep handy in the kitchen that I could always put the toneguard on if it does cause problems. I would appreciate anyone's thoughts or experiences with toneguards on varnished mandolins.

**bradeinhorn** · Sep-28-2007, 11:18am

i'd believe what you hear from tony about the guard. of anyone, he's heard the most complaints and warns his vendors and purchasers clearly about the potential for damage to varnish finish. I'd let the varnish settle for a while longer before trying out a tg on it. also find out the the exact type of varnish process that was done on your mandolin and email tony the specific question.

**JHo** · Sep-28-2007, 11:24am

I use a Tone Gard on a varnished instrument. I can see light marks where the Tone Gard arms have been. Still I don't worry about it, as whatever little scuffs I may get on the sides, I'll save the back from all of the scuffs it would get if the Tone Gard weren't there. Plus it makes the instrument sound better, and I'll gladly trade a few scuffs for a better tone. Just my $0.02.

**Rick Smith** · Sep-28-2007, 11:29am

I had a tonegard on an old F9 and really thought it made quite a difference in the tone.
After getting a varnished mando I called and asked the pointed question of Collings. They advised that I ran a real risk of damaging the finish. They said that if I fealt compelled to use one to take it on and off with each use.
That being said a number of pickers are using them on varnished mandos.
I decided not to use one but do try to hold the back awy from my body or just place the end of the body(near the end pin) near my body which produces the same results.

**Yellowmandolin** · Sep-28-2007, 11:31am

Don't a whole bunch of famous guys with Loars use tone guards? If it won't mess up those, I would think it would be ok on your San Juan. I do agree with Brad though that waiting for the varnish to cure couldn't hurt.

I know its a little off topic, but how do you like your San Juan mando? I played a few at Telluride this year and was pretty impressed...

**Mark Richardson** · Sep-28-2007, 12:07pm

I really enjoy my San Juan. I ordered it from Bobby at the 2006 Telluride Bluegrass Festival. It was finished just in time for the 2007 TBF. Bobby delivered it to me in our hotel room the Tuesday before the TBF. My varnish finish is only four months old. This mandolin is naturally quite loud already and the tones seem to get better everyday. I do not know how much a toneguard would actually enhance anything for me. I tend to be an overly self-conscience and shy bedroom picker. I do manage to play one day a week with a friend, but that is it. As I mentioned in my original post, my friend has a toneguard on his Weber mando and he swears by it. He plays in a couple of bands in the Indianapolis area and his needs are differant than mine. I am leaning on just passing on this whole idea. In my spare bedroom/music room my San Juan sounds great just as it is. I think I may just resist this peer pressure.

Back to Bobby's San Juan Mandolins. If you are in the market for a custom mandolin I would give Bobby a call or email. He was very fun to work with. He keeps you updated and current with every step in the process. I believe that Drew Emmitt has one of his mandolins and one of his mandolas. I had to wait a year for delivery. Bobby only builds four or five a year. If you want more information drop me an email outside of this forum.

**jaco** · Sep-28-2007, 12:15pm

I gave my varnished mandolin a year to settle in before putting the toneguard on. That was over a year ago and everything is OK.

**wayfaringstranger** · Sep-28-2007, 1:52pm

I second the "wait a year or so" sentiment that other posters have expressed. I have a 10-year-old varnished mando that has pretty much lived in its tone-gard since I got it last year. I haven't seen any finish damage yet. A friend of mine has a brand-new mandolin by the same maker that did take some light finish damage from a tone-gard. Seems like maybe the varnish needs time to fully cure first.

john

**MikeEdgerton** · Sep-28-2007, 2:33pm

Here is a thread that discusses this issue.

**stevem** · Sep-28-2007, 5:16pm

I've been using a TG on my varnished mandolin since it was only a few days old (against other's advice). The TG has left some small impressions in the varnish, but no discoloration. A stranger to the mandolin would be hard-pressed to find them though; they're very slight. A TG improves the sound of a mandolin so much, I'd use it even if it left big, black streaks.

If you're worried about keeping your instrument pristine, you should probably wait until the varnish has more fully dried.

**MikeEdgerton** · Sep-28-2007, 8:52pm

Actually the Tonegard wore a little mark into my laquered Gibson F5G. I still won't give it up.

**pjlama** · Sep-30-2007, 10:51am

I feel like a toneguard really helps a new mando to open so I don't worry about the tiny marks it may leave. I'll put one on any new instrument and do. Mark was that your San Juan in the instrument tent at TBF? It looked beautiful, I didn't ask to play it because it had a sold sign on it. Plus you can tell very little in that environment.

P.S. Go for the guard.

**jmcgann** · Sep-30-2007, 12:27pm

The varnish on my Zeidler had 8 years to cure before I put my Tonegard on in '03. I took it off for a photo shoot last year, and nary a mark in sight.

Love the 'gard!

**Potosimando** · Sep-30-2007, 3:18pm

My apologies in advance to many who will read this and take offense...but, for a different take on the above:

I don't get it. #If your mandolin is a great sounding/playing mandolin, then why would three (or fewer) hard-to-see marks in an obscure location on the instrument make any difference to you? #For that matter, why would any superficial mark/s (large or small) anywhere on your mandolin make a difference if you dig the mandolin? #If anything, a perfect-looking unblemished mandolin kind of makes a person look like a novice mandolin player (and a prissy one at that)...like, who are you going to impress by having a perfectly unblemished mandolin (besides another person just like you--certainly no one else)? #I assume that most people (in the general public) want to "hear" the mandolin being played and would never think to investigate, or wonder about, hard-to see blemishes (they probably would think you were nuts to even be concerned about something so silly, so trivial)? #

Does anyone here ever wonder or care about blemishes on Thile's/O'Briens/Grisman's/and-so-on's mandolins? #Of course not. #Switch your mindset to accomplished violinists, or to any other group of serious players--same thing, that being that it's about what you do with the instrument, not how pristine one can keep the instrument.

If the ToneGard improves what you do, then go for it, man. #If there is a museum for perfect mandolins somewhere, then maybe keep your present San Juan for inclusion in that museum someday. #In that case however, maybe you should buy another San Juan, keep one in a glass case to admire lovingly from time to time, and play the heck out of the other one. #

From my experience, if you play your mandolin regularly, then you are going to get significant blemishes on it over time...this is especially true on a varnish-finished mandolin. #No point in denying or delaying the inevitable, especially if you have a tool like a ToneGard that will significantly improve what you. #"I have something important just sitting here, that will make a lot of difference in my mandolin presentation, but I am not going to use it because of something that doesn't make any difference at all, except in the most superficial sense." #

Again, I don't get it...but my apologies to those who would find such a thought to be out-and-out heresy. #

P.S. #To me "distressing" an instrument makes even less sense.

**MikeEdgerton** · Sep-30-2007, 4:22pm

I'm with you on this but some people feel they need to maintain a perfect finish on their mandolins. For those that care that much about how it looks I'd say don't chance it. For the rest of you I'd say go for it.

**pjlama** · Sep-30-2007, 4:55pm

Potosimando, I agree 100%. The marks from the toneguard are nothing compared to all the little dings and scratches that occur on a regular basis from playing the snot out of my favorite instrument. It's called playing wear, and if you love that instrument, by the time you two part ways she'll be covered in scars of affection.

**jmcgann** · Sep-30-2007, 4:57pm

To overstate the obvious, if you are truly careful, you can avoid dings and scratches much more than if you go for the "Relic" look by being, as they say in California, "whatever"...

I've toured and gigged heavily with a 12 year old mando and 7 year old Octave mando- flown all over, bars, concerts etc. and both instruments are dingfree (knock on wood). Somehow it's my guitars that wind up with the dings...

**mythicfish** · Sep-30-2007, 6:35pm

Just keep the instrument in the case ... then you don't need a tone gard.

Curt

**jmcgann** · Sep-30-2007, 7:18pm

Saves wear and tear on picks, too

**Ken Sager** · Sep-30-2007, 7:42pm

And strings...

Better yet, don't leave the house. Think how nice your car will be!

Ok, back on topic... I put a TG on my Arches F5 the day I got it and if there are marks I can't see them and I wouldn't care if there are. About the comment made earlier about using one but taking it off I'd rethink that. I believe (anecdotally) that taking it off and putting it on would cause more wear marks on your mando than just leaving it on all the time.

My $.02,
Ken

**Mark Richardson** · Oct-02-2007, 12:22pm

Thanks for all the input on my original post. Most people have confirmed what my friend told me right off, "Mark, are you going to play that mandolin or are you going to put it in a g*d-damn museum?".

This brings me to another question. I live in rural south-central Indiana. The instrument stores in my area do not have tone-guards. Are they pretty much the same? I have seen them at Elderly Instruments in Lansing, MI and on some web sites. I will have to order one off the web. Any suggestions? Any that I should stay away from?

P.S. To pjlama, that was my San Juan mando in the musicians tent at Telluride. I let Bobby have it during the festival so others could get an idea of his craftsmanship.

**JHo** · Oct-02-2007, 12:46pm

You could order one online through a retailer (got mine from First Quality, great store BTW), or you can order direct through the manufacturer's site (http://www.tone-gard.com).

**MikeEdgerton** · Oct-02-2007, 12:57pm

The true Tonegard will be the same (there are some different patterns available). I got mine at Janet Davis Music. Elderly and FQMS sell them as does Brad Einhorn's King County Strings.

**Potosimando** · Oct-02-2007, 1:07pm

I think Tony makes more money if you order directly from him. You might ask Tony (by email..contact through web site) his preference as to whether to buy TG through him or a store. Support/reward the indpeendent guy who came up with this great invention/innovation.