Label maker

[ndy9691]

Hello everyone,

When I started building mandos I never thought this would give me any trouble, but it has!!!

I am wanting to have makers labels made, but any print shop here (Lexington) act like I have pumpkins growing out of my ears when I ask them to make them. They have no concept of a label to go inside an instrument.

So any of you who have labels printed could you please tell me who prints them for you.

Thanks Dale

[Antlurz]

Any print shop that has equipment to print an image file from your computer should be able to handle it. Then it's up to you to get the image file sized appropriately to print correctly.

Ron

[testore]

If you have enough computer savy to do that then print them yourself. A VERY cool thing to do, and what is very desirable in the violin world, is to have a zinc plate cut of what ever label you design. Then you can either hand press them or find an old printing firm to hand roll them for you. I know, it's very involved, but it makes a very classy looking label.Have fun with it.

[Michael H Geimer]

This should be a No Brainer for a print shop, assuming all you want is a square-cut, 1-color or 2-color label on uncoated paper. Are they thrown off by the mention of it going inside an instrument perhaps?

FWIW: I do not recommend sending your art as an image file. Type is best printed as line art (not as an image). Better to set up your label using something like Adobe Illustrator, InDesign, Quark, etc. Most label I see do not use half-tone images at all, but rather use line art illustrations for any graphic elements.

You might consider hiring a freelance artist to handle your design work, and also coordinate your print production.

Good luck!

[sunburst]

I had a bunch of labels printed (offset) a few years ago, and I'm still using those, but you could contact fellow Cafe member atracksler (Adam Tracksler) at Bryce Creative if you want a good design and possibly even letter press printing.

[Big Joe]

A bit off topic, but interesting. When we began the DMM project at Gibson, we took the flyleafs from books over eighty years old and presented them to the printer so we could have labels that lookes as old as the mandolin was supposed to look. Very cool!

[testore]

I bought a big book while I lived in Germany that was printed in 1757. The book was a wreck, and I had a book dealer tell me it wasn't worth anything as a book,SOOO I cut it up and have used it a number of times to make facsimile labels for violins that I have copied. I've had a few big dealers really like them. If the paper is right then the rest is much easier.That's why I said to have fun with it. It is a great study in printmaking.

[dunbarhamlin]

If someone wanted eighty year old spruce to make some signs, would it be equally cool to rip it out of eighty year old mandolins?
Or why not turn old '78s into fruit bowls?
It is the same thing - separated only by degree.

[Michael H Geimer]

testore, I like your idea about having an engraving made. Very classy, and not all that complicated.

[markishandsome]

If it was an 80 yr old wreck of a mandolin that was appraised as not worth anything by a dealer, I'd be glad it was being used for something worthwhile rather than collecting dust as wallhanger or going into a landfill. Not everything old is worth preserving.

[charlesa46741]

Dale,
I happen to own and operate a small print shop and I am happy to say you are getting good advice. Any self respecting shop should be able to take care of your labels if you choose to have a printer do it. A good suggestion is to come up with a design, get an engraving made and have someone print it letterpress, maybe on an acid free paper--you can even have it diecut into a circle or oval. Show the printer some samples, or rough one out by hand, they can take care of setting up the type. If you choose to do it yourself on a computer, be aware that laser printers are toner based and toner can flake off, or even rub off if not properly fused. I'm not sure how the ink in inkjets stands up, however reds tend to fade (especially when exposed to light--I guess that may not be a problem inside a mandolin. Get some estimates--prices vary on custom jobs.

Good luck

[Caleb]

Great thread.

I've been thinking of this myself since I'm in the process of building my first mandolin. So far I think the idea of the 80 yr. old paper is the most interesting. My wife has a ton of old books (that she never reads and some she never has), so I know EXACTLY where I'm getting the paper for my label when the time comes.

While on topic, does anyone know of some really nice clip art type designs with lutes, cherubs, etc.? Something along the lines of a Larrivee guitar label is what I'm going to want to go for and I have no idea where to begin. I also don't want to get something that is copywritten and use it. I'm sure no one would ever notice, but I just don't want to go that route.

[testore]

Benignus,
It's so easy. Just supply black and white to a good hands on rubber stamp making operaion. Tell them that you don't want the rubber stamp, just the zinc plate that they make to make the rubber stamp from.It's a photo-chemical process,a chimp could do it.I have a huge 8.5x11 zinc sheet of about 20 violin labels. What's so cool is that they all look slightly different. I don't do my mandos that way, just violins.

[dunbarhamlin]

Hmmm, sorry, should have bitten my tongue. I used to look after a collection of old books.

[JEStanek]

Slacker,
Look into Clip Art books on Amazon. The nice thing about clip art books and many CD collections (even better) is the designs are quite old. This Amazon search turned up some nice looking collections including florals, geometrics... etc. Dover is a good brand to get. Plus, if you use one from the collections you know its copy-right free vs pinching stuff off the web. You can find lots of free downloadable fonts on line that will enhance the old timey-ness of your clipart. This is how I would do it as I can barely draw a bath much less a logo.

Jamie

[ndy9691]

Thanks every one
I have my design, and I think I want to do the letter press with the engraving.
I had one quote for 100 labels, one color, it was $475.00
Can I do better or is that typical??
Dale

[charlesa46741]

Dale,
Does that include design and typesetting--what kind of paper--special ink mix, size of label?--Also you might try quantities of 250, 500 or even 1000. I know it's a lot of labels but the extras should be very inexpensive, since most of the cost of this job is the engraving and setting up the press. You can always paper your walls with the extras. I would definitely see about a competitive quote or two if that price only include printing and engraving.

[Caleb]

Slacker,
Look into Clip Art books on Amazon. #The nice thing about clip art books and many CD collections (even better) is the designs are quite old. #This Amazon search turned up some nice looking collections including florals, geometrics... etc. Dover is a good brand to get. #Plus, if you use one from the collections you know its copy-right free vs pinching stuff off the web. #You can find lots of free downloadable fonts on line that will enhance the old timey-ness of your clipart. #This is how I would do it as I can barely draw a bath much less a logo.

Jamie

Thanks for the heads up. I just bought one of the old copywright free clipart books, though it does not have CD Rom. I'll have to cut something out, scan it, and let me wife do her magic on the computer/printer for my label. Hopefully it will work out ok. If not, I'll have a cool clipart book for other things.

[ndy9691]

Charles,
It included making the plate for pressing, I had the design but I'm sure they would have to clean it up (make The letters perfect). They make labels for another luthier so they understand what is required as far as paper and ink.They would send me samples of paper to choose.
It is an oval design about 2 inch by 31/2 inches. The last print shop here I asked , suggested peel and stick labels. Thanks for your help. Dale

[charlesa46741]

Dale,
That makes a lot more sense, if the labels involve diecutting and composition. It may be that finding a printer who can do all these operations in your area limits you to a handful--the big guys aren't interested and the copy places don't have the equipment. It's very good that they have printed labels for another luthier--they'll understand what you want.

[Paul Hostetter]

I lay mine out on my computer and print them with a laser printer. You can lay out words and image as a nice big graphic in Photoshop, and shrink the file to size and print 50 to a page with excruciating detail. Or just lay them out in Word. WYSIWYG.

Laser toner is archival quality as long as the paper it's on is decent, and there's lots of that to be had. You don't really understand what you have until it's been printed and you're staring at the actual thing. Doing it yourself means you can try ONE and if you want to change the font or the proportions or the border and so on, you can do that and print another, until you get what you want.

[ndy9691]

Thanks Paul,
doing things on the computer are quite a challenge, but I am thinking about trying that out.
The biggest reason I did'nt think of the PC route, was because of the ink issue. I'll check out a laser priner though. Dale

[Paul Hostetter]

If you're on a PC and can at least compose a label you like, and if you don't have a laser printer (I have a vintage HP that has been the perfect workhorse for about 15 years now) you can burn the file to a CD or email it and have someone with a better printer do it for you. Epson inkjet inks are reliably archival (and expensive to match), so you may be in better shape than you think if you have an Epson. I have a PC with the HP laser printer and a Mac with an Epson color inkjet networked so I can pass things back and forth for appropriate tasks. Nothing beats a laser for clarity of edge though.

I have some fun with labels. I shepherd a large pool of rental violins and so on, many of which have rather whimsical labels in them. I make one-off labels for instruments made for certain people, and I also make pretty decent repro labels. If you have a good inkjet you can get gold and silver inks and make decals as well.

I don't mean to take business away from good print shops, but often you go to the expense of having hundreds if not thousands of labels made up only to find out they didn't come out quite as you thought they would. The desktop approach gives you some trial and error for no real expense.

[sunburst]

FWIW, you can do the trial and error with your printer at home, then take/send your design to a printer and get letterpress or whatever process they do and you like.

Also, I'll throw in a little plug for Adam Tracksler (the guy I mentioned before). When he did my business cards for me he sent literally pages of printed samples so I could make my decision before he printed the real things.

[Paul Hostetter]

There you go.