Trinity college mandolins

[Chad Thorne]

Anybody know the country of origin of these instruments?

[Celtic Saguaro]

China

[jim simpson]

There's a college in China called Trinity College?

[allenhopkins]

Yeah, it's right next to the Eastman School of Music*...

Actually, Trinity College is a well-known institution in Dublin, Ireland, ergo a suitable name for a line of instruments often used in Celtic music.

I've posted (to boring excess) about my dislike of hanging western names on Asian instruments: Loar, Michael Kelly, Morgan Monroe, Johnson, Fullerton, Kentucky, Blue Ridge, etc. etc. -- not to mention the annexation of vintage American labels: Epiphone, Washburn, Regal, now Flatiron, etc.

All of which types me as an old grouchy person with a quixotic dislike of "sound marketing strategies" that no doubt provide us with thousands of decent instruments and enrich many worthy folks in Asia and America. Perhaps I need to adjust my meds.

*which is actually in my home town of Rochester NY

[Chad Thorne]

Yeah, it's right next to the Eastman School of Music...

Michael Kelly's house is on the other side...

MY meds are completely balanced and I'm with you, Allen.

Would anybody happen to know if anybody else makes an octave mandolin w/a 20 3/8" scale neck in some country other than China? I played a TC the other day at Song of the Sea in Bar Harbor, Maine, www.songsea.com, #and liked it a lot. For the foreseeable future, however, I avoid buying Chinese-made products whenever possible.

[neangler]

Hum...Song of the Sea. I live about an hour from there, thirty minutes up the coast from Ellsworth. It's a small world, and I wish there were more stores like Song of the Sea.

As for buying Chinese, just remember: it's better to trade with China than fight with it. Also remember (after all of the slamming of Chinese quality in a wide variety of products), that only 30 years ago "Made in Japan" meant "cheap ####." Now, Toyota is the largest car compny in the world, and Japanese electronics have taken over the world, and have you ever heard of Sony Music? Frankly, I think it's interesting watching China develop, and people who complain about it need to get into the 21st century. As a wise Asian philosopher said: "May you live in interesting times."

[jefflester]

Would anybody happen to know if anybody else makes an octave mandolin w/a 20 3/8" scale neck in some country other than China?

The Garrisons are around 20". Not sure what they are exactly.

http://www.garrisonguitars.com/mandolins.asp?r=om20

[Chad Thorne]

As for buying Chinese, just remember: it's better to trade with China than fight with it.

Absolutely. But at this time I choose to do neither.

Also remember (after all of the slamming of Chinese quality in a wide variety of products), that only 30 years ago "Made in Japan" meant "cheap ####."

And my position is not based on concerns about quality. I've seen the Eastmans, Michael Kellys and now Trinity Colleges. Very well-made products. I'll simply state my reasons, but I won't argue or defend them, so as not to start a political wrangle here:

Chinese goods are priced very competitively. I believe this aggressive pricing is a result of cost-cutting compromises made in both the safety of many products (lead-painted toys, antifreeze in toothpaste) and labor practices, e.g., paying workers chump change and obliging them to work in poor, unsafe conditions. I have no proof for this latter, and it may well not apply to all employers of Chinese workers. But, oh, brother, I'd bet real money that it goes on to a significant degree.

When I can be surer than I am now that my buying Chinese-made goods at a very attractive price point does not support a system that turns a blind eye to those objectionable practices, I will much more apt to buy Chinese-made goods.

[Rik Dias]

Well said , a recent report on Newsweek points those problems out along with environmental ones ...

Now China is the world`s greatest polluter - one step behind USA.
Let`s hope at least that may be solved quickly in a next international convention.

Back to mandolins , I got a Trinity College octave mandolin , and I`m quite satisfied with it for the price I paid - it was made in Korea , yet with good supervision.

[JEStanek]

My TC Octave (2004) was made in Korea as well and, was labeled as such. I think they are highly regarded as starter Octave mandolins (see the CBOM section). The new TC instruments are advertised as Chinese imports (e.g., Elderly's site).

For the record, the Trinity College brand of instruments is part of the Saga line you can see everything the manufacture and export on Saga's website. Their Boulder Alpine gig bag is great too. NFI for me, just satisfied with my TC and gig bag. The Kentucky brand of mandolins are also a Saga brand.

I wonder if people will start avoiding products manufactured in the second biggest polluter in the world?

Jamie

[Tim2723]

Having never been to the Orient to see first-hand their working conditions, I cannot comment. But I do play an MK mandolin. When I look at it I'm not reminded of some poor-quality, cost-cut product produced by mistreated labor in a dingy, unsafe factory. Nor do I imagine an assembly line manned by unskilled people sweating under the threat of the taskmaster's whip. I see a product skillfully produced to a very high quality. It's not a multi-thousand dollar masterpiece of the independent luthier's art, but it wasn't made by starving children either.

[Keith Erickson]

Having never been to the Orient to see first-hand their working conditions, I cannot comment. #But I do play an MK mandolin. #When I look at it I'm not reminded of some poor-quality, cost-cut product produced by mistreated labor in a dingy, unsafe factory. #Nor do I imagine an assembly line manned by unskilled people sweating under the threat of the taskmaster's whip. #I see a product skillfully produced to a very high quality. #It's not a multi-thousand dollar masterpiece of the independent luthier's art, but it wasn't made by starving children either.

Tim,

Here, here from another proud MK owner

I worked in Mexico for over 10 years and you wouldn't believe the "rumors" that my corporate counterparts believed about our operations down there.

No matter what you can't win!!!!

There are those that show up on TV and demand that we send our hard working dollars overseas to feed these people with no strings attached... ...but how dare we teach these same people a trade or a craft so that they may earn a living and feed themselves.

I've been on this board for a few years and I've never ever heard a bad word said about Eastman. Maybe looking back in retrospect, I should have bought and Eastman but I'm satisfied with my MK.

[Jim MacDaniel]

I wonder if people will start avoiding products manufactured in the second biggest polluter in the world?

Well let's hope consumers around the world don't start boycotting products made by the world's greatest polluter.

[Tim2723]

Pollution is a separate but inexorably related problem of industry. If we are to enjoy the fruits of an industrialized world, we must expect to deal with the problems of pollution. That industry pollutes is not the question. How we effectively deal with that pollution is the question. The control of pollution is a constant and unrelenting effort, and the price of an unpolluted world is constant vigilance.

[John Flynn]

And pollution in China has what to do with mandolins? I seriously doubt the mandolin making industry in China contributes much, if anything, to pollution. Boycotts are a personal political decision, not a musical one. I wish that every other thread here didn't have to become a political soapbox. A lot of threads lately are getting locked for this kind of thing and rightly so. There are plenty of sites you can go to where you can decry the ills of the world. I wish we could leave politics out of this one.

[Tim2723]

You're right, of course. Pollution is not the question to be debated here, no more than the working conditions of another nation as we might view them from our vantage point.

Trinity College mandolins are produced in China. I believe that was the answer to the question.

[epicentre]

FOR THE MONEY AND
IN MY OPINION (worth nothing)
Trinity College mandolins are very good. A bit heavy on the finish, but if played, over time, they do open up nicely, and do well in Celtic and Old Time, and wherever else you want to play them.

Someday, when my ship comes in (I'll be at the train depot), I shall probably buy a "good" "North American" made flat top mandolin.

In the mean time, guess I'll have to do with the shoddy goods from the Orient. I have received several compliments on the sound of the thing from audiences.......but what to they know? After all!! My gosh, they're only listening.
The dummies.

Mine is extremely nice to play; smooth, low action, stays in tune well............Probably a fluke??!!!!

[Keith Erickson]

And pollution in China has what to do with mandolins? I seriously doubt the mandolin making industry in China contributes much, if anything, to pollution. Boycotts are a personal political decision, not a musical one. I wish that every other thread here didn't have to become a political soapbox. A lot of threads lately are getting locked for this kind of thing and rightly so. There are plenty of sites you can go to where you can decry the ills of the world. I wish we could leave politics out of this one.

Johnny,

I've never understood why such the vitriol and hatred when mentioning "mandolins" and the "far east" in the same sentence.

There are a good many of us that were introduced to the mandolin by way of the pac-rim route. #There are also many of us that have financial commitments that prevent us from pulling the trigger on a high ticket item (at this point in time).

I'm waiting for the day when these "pac-rims" are just as good and expensive as a Gibson DMM. #And if you think I'm crazy, just think of how much a Lexus cost.

[Tim2723]

The vitriol and hatred stems from our inability to provide a good mandolin on a consistent basis for a couple of hundred bucks. And yes, if it wern't for decent Pac Rim mandolins there'd be about one tenth as many members on this board.

The pollution and working condition comments are, nevertheless, off topic.

[allenhopkins]

Jeez, another can o' worms! I'm afraid I at least assisted in prying it open.

If I can restate the point I made several geopolitical posts ago:

I have nothing repeat nothing against buying Asian-made instruments. I have recently purchased an Eastman 615 mandola, a Gold Tone "banjola" (large mandolin body, 5-string banjo neck), and a Gold Tone travel banjo. Given the current global manufacturing situation, if you want low-to-medium-priced instruments, you buy from Asia, Eastern Europe, or Latin America. With a few exceptions, such as Big Muddy mandolins, American-made instruments are at the high end of the price range. Of course, you can buy used -- there are a lot of ramifications, but let's leave it at that.

What frosts my cookies, and has for awhile, is the labeling. Call your line of Asian instruments Yamaha, Tama, Takamine, and I have no problem. Call them Kentucky, Trinity College, Blue Ridge, and I find that a bit disingenuous, but I guess understandable when they're intended for an American market. Call them Flatiron, Epiphone, Washburn, and I think it's a questionable attempt to annex the reputation of a respected US company, that either you've bought out and closed, or have picked up the nameplate at a bankruptcy sale.

There are several discussions in other threads about the good working conditions, craftsmanship and high quality standards at Eastman Musical Instruments' China facilities. We should be able to make distinctions between reputable, high-quality Asian operations, and those who put antifreeze in toothpaste and poison in cough syrup (several died in Panama from contaminated Chinese cough medicine). Our own manufacturers have not been blameless when it comes to labor exploitation and dangerous practices; read Sinclair's The Jungle, or the headlines from the Utah coal mines. Indiscriminate country-bashing makes no sense to me.

All I ask, is call those Asian instruments what they really are, not "Epiphones" or "Flatirons." Epi Stathopoulo and Steve Carlson had nothing to do with making them.

[John Flynn]

All I ask, is call those Asian instruments what they really are, not "Epiphones" or "Flatirons." #Epi Stathopoulo and Steve Carlson had nothing to do with making them.

By that logic, though, even "The Gibson" nameplate is decieving. It trades on the legacy that name represented in the first half of the 1900's, but it is materially not the same company it was. There is not any unbroken legacy of luthiery there, no trade secrets or patents that provide unique value. (Unless you count the flowerpot, LOL!) Orville Gibson and Lloyd Loar had no more or less to do with the current Gibsons than they have to do any other builder who uses mandolin plans from that era. But if you buy a name, you own it and you can do with it what you want. That's the way it is.

[wmferg]

Wow, Chad....you had better steer clear of Walmart, KMart, Target, Home Depot, Lowe's and pretty much ANY OTHER major retailer.

It's ironic, Our Chinese food is American made and everything else is made in China!!! The chickens have come home to roost.

Mike

[Keith Erickson]

I've got 100 Yuan that says that this thread will be locked up by the end of the day.

NOTE: 1 Chinese Yuan= 0.132109 US Dollars

[lastchair]

What frosts my cookies, and has for awhile, is the labeling. #Call your line of Asian instruments Yamaha, Tama, Takamine, and I have no problem. #Call them Kentucky, Trinity College, Blue Ridge, and I find that a bit disingenuous, but I guess understandable when they're intended for an American market. #Call them Flatiron, Epiphone, Washburn, and I think it's a questionable attempt to annex the reputation of a respected US company, that either you've bought out and closed, or have picked up the nameplate at a bankruptcy sale.

Hear hear, I'm with Allen on this one. #My lastname is Chu, a Chinese name. #When I got married I kept it among other reasons (laziness) was that having a Western lastname would confuse everyone. #It's like when the Germans used to label their violins with Italian names (Antonio Stradivarius faciebat anno ...) being one of the favourite labels. #And now there are Chinese violins with German names. #Maybe someday there will be xyz violins with Chinese names. #

But it is deceiving to a newbie to see all of these great American names being put onto a foreign mandolin. #And yes, Gibson is also riding on a name. #At least my Eastman says "Made in Beijing China", and everyone knows that East is East and West is West. #Makes me want to buy a Big Muddy because it's accurately labeled [emerging MAS alert!] #

Hey and I stopped buying soy sauce from China when I read about the water pollution.

[David Newton]

I'm going to build a few mandos and guitars here in Texas, and call them "Yang Tse" on the label. Man, I bet that'll tick 'em off!