Bill monroe & electronic organ?

[Kapellmeister]

For all you bluegrass historians out there...

I recently obtained Bill Monroe's "The Gospel Spirit" cd and a few of the cuts really surprised me by hearing an electronic organ. #If a keyboard of some sort were to be used, I would have thought that early bluegrass might have incorporated the accordion... but an electronic organ?

It doesn't sound to me like a Hammond organ. #I know that in the '60's, the small "combo" organs like the Farfisa and the Vox were used in pop music. #The Vox Continental organ wasn't introduced until 1962. #Today, they're referred to as "those cheesey sounding organs" (you know, like the Farfisa in Del Shannon's (1961) "Runaway" or the Vox in The Animals' (1964) "House of the Rising Sun" and Question Mark & The Mysterians' (1966) "96 Tears").

The most I could find about this cd compilation was:

Among the 16 tracks, six were cut for a 1958 religious LP, I Saw the Light, but the rest, drawn from singles dating back to 1950, are just bluegrass songs that happen to treat Christian themes, starting with a version of the Carter Family's "I'm Working on a Building," cut in 1954. One gets to hear different versions of the band. The earliest track, 1950s "I'll Meet You in Church Sunday Morning," features Monroe with his brother Birch Monroe, Jimmy Martin, and Joel Price, while the I Saw the Light tracks recorded eight years later use Edd Mayfield, Bessie Mae Mauldin or Culley Holt, Kenny Baker, and Gordon Terry (with producer Owen Bradley sitting in on an un-bluegrass-like organ on "Precious Memories," "Life's Railway to Heaven," and the closing track, "Wayfaring Stranger"). But Monroe's high tenor remains distinctive, whether playing off lead vocalists Martin, Mayfield, Charlie Cline (on 1955's "Let the Light Shine Down on Me"), or even Carter Stanley (on 1951's "Get Down on Your Knees and Pray"). And the music remains true to the high-lonesome sound of Bill Monroe's bluegrass. It's just that the lyrics on these tracks are all reverent. ~ William Ruhlmann, All Music Guide

Considering these recordings are all from the '50's - do any of you have any idea as to what kind of organ this might have been?

Gene

[12 fret]

Hmmmmm... Bill Monroe,,,,,Electronic organ,,,,,Don't think we want to go there.

[Kapellmeister]

I was first listening to this cd in the car with my wife a few days ago. #When we heard the "cheesey organ", we just looked at each other with all four eyebrows raised!

[cooper4205]

I have no idea about the organ, but "I Found a Hidin' Place" off that album has my favorite Monroe break of all-time.

I'm sure f5loar or evan reilly will be able to answer this question.

[evanreilly]

Mr. Reilly sez to ask Owen Bradley; he was there, mostly. But, unfortunately, he is deceased.

[allenhopkins]

Owen Bradley, who produced many of Monroe's Decca sessions, played organ on three of them: March 17, 1951 (Swing Low, Sweet Chariot/Angels Rock Me to Sleep), March 19, 1958 (Life's Railway to Heaven), and March 31, 1958 (Wayfaring Stranger/House of Gold) My source is Neil Rosenberg's Bill Monroe and His Blue Grass Boys: An Illustrated Discography, published in 1974 by the Country Music Foundation. Rosenberg's book states that Bradley didn't play organ on Precious Memories, also recorded March 19, 1958, but if there's organ on that track, Rosenberg's wrong; it was Bradley.

Researching all the bluegrass historical material I can dig up, I can't find a mention of what type of organ Bradley used on the Monroe sessions. A narrative of Bradley's production of Patsy Cline's Crazy in 1961, however, mentions him "directing the sessions from behind a small Hammond organ," and this is as close as I can get to a definite ID. I would think that some organized research on Bradley and his Quonset Hut Studio in Nashville, might yield more info on the gear that was used there.

[Leevon DeCourley]

Monroe's version of Precious Memories on Time Life's Heaven Bound cd has an organ turnaround. It dosn't tell in the insert of the date it was recorded.

[swampstomper]

The new Roseberg & Wolfe book (Univ. of Illinois press, available also from County Sales) has all the gory details. March 17, 1951. Owen Bradley on "skating rink" organ for Kentucky Waltz, Swing Low, Angels Rock me to Sleep; then on March 19, 1958 Bradley again on Precious Memories and Life's Railway to Heaven, and on 21 March Wayfaring Stranger and House of Gold. The 1951 session was all studio musicians, in 1958 the idea was to give some depth to a gospel project (also featuring professional bass singer Culley Holt), with the BG boys (Mayfield lead, Kenny Baker baritone); Bessie Lee playing SB. To me the organ sounds pretty hokey on all of them.

[Kapellmeister]

Thanks for all your replies. #I found some excerpts from the Wolfe book you referred to, swampstomper. #That really did shed a little light on it. #It seems that it was Paul Cohen of Decca that wanted to modernize Monroe's style a bit. #That '51 session even had "Grady Martin's electric guitar to the point where the arrangement (of Kentucky Waltz) approached rockabilly. #The session marked the first time Monroe had recorded with electric instruments and drums, not wanting to make waves with his new producer, he cooperated." #It goes on to say, "By the end of 1951, Decca had given up, and Monroe himself had seen the danger of trying to modernize his style."

Actually, the organ in Angels Rock Me To Sleep does sound like a Hammond to me (and it's way back in the mix) but in Life's Railway & Precious Memories, it's really obnoxious (IMHO). #I suppose the Hammond could have been voiced that way... I guess it's likely it was a Hammond, given the reference Allen cited.

Thanks again.

Gene

[swiba]

I know Bill recorded "Kentucky Waltz" with a organ intro and playing thru out.:D

[John Flynn]

I had some recordings of Mr. Bill backed variously on different tracks by a piano, an accordian and an electric guitar.

[earthsave]

Yeah, that Hammond Organ sound is very cheezy, but overall this is a great CD. The Ed Mayfield songs showcase his voice, especially Lord Lead Me On. Also, so very upbeat Gospel tunes.

I imagine Owen Bradley pushed or drove that organ sound. I wonder if it was added later or recorded live. But you never know, maybe Bill thought it gave an authentic churchy sound?? Reminds me of All Skate!!!

[swampstomper]

Oh yes, Mayfield was a tremendous singer and could really "stand up" to Mon vocally. His untimely death was a real tragedy for the music. Agree about that lead on Lord Lead me On... I get chills just thinking about it.

[evanreilly]

I think one of the reasons Bill hired Edd Mayfield was that Edd was a better horseman than Monroe. Mayfield was a real Texas cowboy. And, I consider the Monroe-Mayfield duets some of Monroe's most powerful recordings.

[earthsave]

I know Bill recorded "Kentucky Waltz" with a organ intro and playing thru out.:D

I sorta cringe when I hear that one. Such a beautiful song with fiddle and mandolin tremelo, but the organ is just too harsh. Almost bagpipey.

[allenhopkins]

I know Bill recorded "Kentucky Waltz" with a organ intro and playing thru out.:D

I sorta cringe when I hear that one. Such a beautiful song with fiddle and mandolin tremelo, but the organ is just too harsh. Almost bagpipey.

Actually, I think that's Wilene Forrester on accordion, rather than organ.

[earthsave]

You know you're right; I went and looked at the liner notes on The Essential Bill Monroe and His Blue Grass Boys and it is the accordion. The unissued version is less pronounced accordion supposedly. I caint locate that CD now or I'd give it a re-listen.

[Peter Hackman]

I know Bill recorded "Kentucky Waltz" with a organ intro and playing thru out.:D

I sorta cringe when I hear that one. #Such a beautiful song with fiddle and mandolin tremelo, but the organ is just too harsh. #Almost bagpipey.

Actually, I think that's Wilene Forrester on accordion, rather than organ.

I think you're confusing the Columbia version, 1945, with the Decca version from 1951.

Incidentally, I believe there is a Leslie on Angels Rock Me to Sleep. More inerestingly, it's one of the very few recordings where Monroe sings lead on the chorus, Jimmy Martin supplying a falsetto tenor.

My spontaneous reaction on hearing Wayfaring Stranger for the first time
(in 1966) was there had to be a piano on that one. Bradley's contribution is very faint, but those chords at the end of phrases sound like piano chords to me,
possibly with added sixths and stuff like that. In an email correspondence a while back Rosenberg claimed to hear an organ. Hard to say. Maybe Bradley played with one hand on the organ and the other on the piano. Whatever it is I think it's beautiful.

I Saw the Light has some of Monroe's best vocal efforts, especially I Am a Pilgrim, where the mandolin seems to imitate his voice or vice versa.
An added attraction is the very rich and resonant bass voice of Culley Holt, one of the founding members of the Jordanaires.

[hoffmannia2k7]

I Really like that organ sound.
Reminds me of some Hank WIlliams recordings Beyond the Sunset and The Funeral.
Bill mOnroe didn't invent bluegrass anyhow so we are safe if he plays some organ.

[cooper4205]

Bill mOnroe didn't invent bluegrass anyhow so we are safe if he plays some organ.

[evanreilly]

Well, William Smith Monroe may not have 'invented' Blue Grass Music, but he certainly named his music after his home state!

[Peter Hackman]

If I remember correctly the LP I Saw the Light was labelled as a Bill Monroe
album, not Monroe and His Bluegrass Boys, or even Bluegrass Quartet
(in contrast to an EP of earlier gospel material, issued in the late 50's).
I think this fact illustrates the producer's conception of the album,
along with the organ, the use of a session musician as
bass singer and bass player, and the way some of the songs are arranged as
solo with vocal backing, rather than true quartet numbers.