Feedback and song categorization

**Narayan Kersak** · Aug-13-2007, 1:52pm

Here is a tune I've been working on for a while. I finished the A part a month or so ago. The B part finally came out. Your comments are appreciated. Oh yes, if you have any ideas about where this song fits let me know. I play primarily Celtic music, and have occasionally strayed into old time, but I'm not sure about this one...thoughts?

You can access it here: http://www.musicnoyz.com/artists/bands/267/

It is the first song on the list "Attfield's Lament".

**Fred Keller** · Aug-13-2007, 7:01pm

I'd say it definitely has an Irish feel to it more so than old time. As to what category, I'm not sure. March? Air? It's in reel time (i.e., 4/4) but it doesn't feel like it wants to be played at a faster reel tempo to me.

Very cool tune, Ryan. Lovely arrangement too.

**John Flynn** · Aug-13-2007, 8:03pm

According to Wikipedia:

"In the traditional music of Scotland, a lament is also a genre of musical composition for the bagpipes. In Scots Gaelic, these pieces are often called pìobaireachd or pibroch (an Anglicised spelling representing the pronunciation). In form, these slow pieces are a theme and variations, beginning with a slow air (called the urlar) which is played with variations and embellishments; the simple melody returns to finish the piece. These pieces are usually named after a person; traditionally, the person for whom they were composed was a warrior slain in battle.

The traditional lament played at Commonwealth services of remembrance is a solo bagpipe version of Flowers of the Forest... A lament in music is a piece featuring a basso ostinato. Its repeating bass theme contains a descending, typically chromatic figure (often descending from tonic to dominant) in slow triple meter. A good example of this is Henry Purcell's 'When I am laid in earth'."

I think the tune sounds great and I don't know if you intended it, but it does have a very Scottish sound, like some of the old Scottish marches.

**Narayan Kersak** · Aug-13-2007, 8:18pm

Hmmm...based on the definition of a "lament" it's not really a lament eh?

One day the A part just popped in my head and I liked the marchiness of it...I tried to get a B part to fit for over a month...and just today the proper B part finally popped out.

Thanks for the compliments. I really dig this song myself, and can't wait to hear it at session with our guitar, fiddle and whistle in accompaniment.

What kind of titles do marches have? Maybe I need to give it an alternate name, since it doesn't really fit the category of a lament.

**Fred Keller** · Aug-13-2007, 8:26pm

Marches can be lots of things--Garryowen is a march and it's 6/8. Peruse O'Neill's or one of those Irish tune books and you'll see the variety.

**John Flynn** · Aug-13-2007, 10:42pm

You could call it "Attfield's March." That sounds pretty cool.

**Narayan Kersak** · Aug-14-2007, 6:48am

Attfield's March sounds good. What key to bagpipes play in? I believe this is in Am. Can a piper do that?

**John Flynn** · Aug-14-2007, 9:44am

An independent thread has started on this tune:
http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin....=46195;

**Narayan Kersak** · Aug-14-2007, 9:47am

so which thread do we use?

Aug-15-2007, 2:22pm

The tonality is A dorian. Dorian is a characteristic mode of Celtic music. See my post in the other thread.

**mandocrucian** · Aug-15-2007, 3:00pm

One minor suggestion

bar 7, change the last note (D) to a B
=======================
=3=2=0==========2======
=======5==2=0=2========
=======================

or a C
=======================
=3=2=0==========3======
=======5==2=0=2========
=======================

or a G
=======================
=3=2=0=================
=======5==2=0=2=5======
=======================

or use an E-G-B triplet
=======================
=3=2==0=============2=====
========5==2=0==2=5======
=======================

**Narayan Kersak** · Aug-15-2007, 5:34pm

What is a half cadence?

**Narayan Kersak** · Aug-15-2007, 5:50pm

I do like the C variation...but out of curiosity...why did you make that suggestion...I only know a scad miniscule bit of theory...and just play what I like when I write music...so why these suggestions?

**Evan Mahoney** · Aug-15-2007, 6:15pm

Well, a half cadence is where the last chord played in a phrase spells out the Dominat chord of the key signature played in. For example this Lament is in the key of C, the first ending has an E to a G. It could be harmonized by making the E the third of the root chord, C, #and the G as the root of the dominat chord. This would be a half cadence as the I moves to the V and does not resolve back to the one. Try it, play an F chord, #a C chord and then play a G chord and listen for what you want to happen next.
The last two cadences in the piece are both Authentic cadences. The only chords they could go to in this type of song would be the I, the C.

**mandocrucian** · Aug-15-2007, 9:49pm

Originally Posted by

I do like the C variation...but out of curiosity...why did you make that suggestion...I only know a scad miniscule bit of theory...and just play what I like when I write music...so why these suggestions?

I played the tune. It just seemed that the line would flow and lead back to the open A note a little more naturally with these alternatives than it would from the open D note. Other than that minor detail, I thought the tune was just fine.

NH

Aug-16-2007, 12:25pm

Um, well, the piece isn't in C. Earlier I said it was A dorian, but that's not correct because of the f naturals (instead of f sharps). Sorry - I should have looked at the music closer. It's actually in A minor (natural minor). Therefore a half cadence would need to end on an E.

You could try an experiment in bar 8 - change the notes so that the bar cadences on E. Another experiment you could try is placing a sharp in front of all the "F"s in the piece. That would give you the dorian mode.

The only reason I give those suggestions is as an experiment. The piece is fine just the way it is, but sometimes it opens new horizons to try something intellectually that might not occur to your fingers.

**Narayan Kersak** · Aug-16-2007, 1:39pm

Hey Zman...I don't think I see any "F"s in this, unless I'm more uneducated musically than I once thought???

Aug-16-2007, 1:50pm

Originally Posted by (ralian @ Aug. 16 2007, 14:39)

Hey Zman...I don't think I see any "F"s in this, unless I'm more uneducated musically than I once thought???

Ah, well, it's my screen then. For some reason, it only shows sporadic staff lines, sometimes only two or three, so I'm guessing at the notes.

**John Flynn** · Aug-16-2007, 1:55pm

Yeah, I'm not seeing any F's either, although I do hear the tune as being in A minor, playing along with it.

**Narayan Kersak** · Aug-17-2007, 12:24pm

I liked the C suggestion in the 7th bar. Here is the final version.

**Evan Mahoney** · Aug-17-2007, 3:50pm

Word. A dorian. I simply peeped out the key signature. Interestingly enough, there isn't an F in the entire piece. As far as my explination, the equation is the same, insert different chords in respect to the Tonic and Dominat.
Authentic Cadence, V-I
Half Cadence, I-V
Plagal Cadence, vi-IV
Deceptive Cadence, I-vi
Perfect Authentic, V-I with root in bass.

This is from memory, I could be incorrect.