Fiddle tunes on om's

[Sarge]

The more I play my OM, the more i find myself taking fiddle tunes that i usally play on my mando at jams and adapting them for OM. Especially with the celtic fiddle tunes, adding in the drones is really cool.

Anywho, im just curious what fiddle tunes that you find particularly adapt well for the OM.

[wayfaringstranger]

Anything that isn't in B flat.

[steve V. johnson]

Bb & Eb are the old Irish tunes done on pipes and melodeon.

Thank heaven for capos!

stv

[rmcintos]

stv and a capo? No way..

For me, anything in the keys of A,D,G, or the various modes of G and D works great. What works even better is if there are no position shifts in the song.

I hate that high b.

[steve V. johnson]

LOL! #Got me...

But I have been using one of late. #I'm trying to learn to play at mandola tuning, so I've been using the capo at the 5th fret, and just fer fun, at the 7th, too. #It helps to let me have another timbre when there's another OM/zouk player in a session.

But when I really want to play along with some of the Kerry flat accordion stuff, the Mulcahys' recordings, or the pipe tunes on the "Kitty Lie Over" CD, yep, I capo at the first.

Busted. #I confess. #

stv

[PseudoCelt]

I think polkas are good to play on OM/bouzouki. They are relatively simple tunes to learn and IMO suit the tone of OMs and bouzoukis.

A few suggestions (and where to find recordings of them):

# Ballydesmond Polkas 1 & 2 (see George Hadjineophytou's recording in the Cafe mp3 section)

# The Finnish Polka
# O'Keefes (both on Dan Beimborn's "Shatter the Calm" CD)

# Dennis Murphy's
# The £42 Cheque
# John Ryan's (all on Planxty's "Cold Blow and the Rainy Night")

Notation for most of the above tunes can be found at TheSession.org.

Patrick

[otterly2k]

I find myself really drawn to jigs... I have to really push myself to learn reels. Something so cool about the polyrhythms available in 6/8 that gives me a lot to work with. I play a lot of them... some examples:

Banish Misfortune
Merrily Kissed the Quaker (or the Quaker's Wife...different titles, same tune)
My Darling Asleep
Reverend Brother's
The Wild One
The Frieze Britches (Cunla)
Maid at the Spinning Wheel (this one has a really challenging run)
Kilmoulis Jig
Andy DeJarlis'

[Bertram Henze]

I too have my problems with reels - I play a few (Man of the House, Drowsy Maggie, Gravel Walks, Mason's Apron), but I have a hard time keeping up the speed considered normal by other musicians in sessions - I mostly switch to accompaniment then. I can make simplifications and shortcuts, but somehow reels lose their beauty that way.

Jigs and hornpipes, on the other hand, (my favourite rhythms) can take the odd double stop instead of a triplet or a one-note-triplet instead of a complicated passage without loss.

Examples of what I play:
Home by the Fire + Chief O'Neills (hornpipes)
Sliabh Russell + Peter Barnes + Indian Summer (a jig set I copied from Dan Beimborn's mp3 here on the Cafe)
Kesh Jig + Merrily Kissed the Quaker + Cook in the Kitchen (jigs)
Gavin Baird's + Grand Marais (by Corey Ticknor, currently practising those)

I find it interesting that we apparently can do things fiddlers can't - Indian Summer is not only not a fiddle tune by origin, the fiddlers in my local session community say they tried it but it's kind of "bulky" to play (because of the direct D - E jump).

Bertram

[jmcgann]

I hate that high b.

I hear you! Three things that might help:

1) When playing any stringed instrument, it's a good idea to be sure your left hand alignment is good. The fingers should not touch each other, they should splay open right from the base of the hand, the "duck web" between the fingers should be pretty wide open.

2) #Experiment with thumb position in back of the neck (or closer to the fingerboard)

3) Since we need the pinky to do double duty in 1st position on both the 5th and 7th frets (unless we get Ted's Sixth Finger Surgery ... tougher nowadays, I heard the clinic got busted ), we can compensate for the stretch by aligning the hand so the 1st finger is now at the 2nd or 3rd fret. For example, say Blackberry Blossom:

frets 3737 2525 fingers 1414 1414 where you'd shift the whole hand down one fret. These shifts make a huge difference. Position shifting is a fact of life outside of old time music and Irish music- most Bluegrass fiddlers do it- why not us?

Even gnarly keys like Bb and Eb are approachable with this technique. I wouldn't play an instrument that couldn't handle any key- so if the problem is me, I'm gonna figure out a way to solve the problem so I don't blame the instrument.

Bb scale:

string 4: G A Bb C (0 2 3 5) # # # #fingers: 0 1 2 4
string 3: D Eb F G #( 0 1 3 5) # # # fingers: 0 1 2 4
string 2: A Bb C D Eb (0 1 3 5) # #fingers: 0 1 1 3 4
string 1: F G A Bb (1 3 5 6) # # # # fingers: #1 1 3 4

Now, the places that you shift will depend on the melodic context (what notes come before and after)- but the shifts, especially shifting with the 1st finger, really make the job easier. We can only stretch so far!

"High Level Hornpipe" is still gonna be a bear, though

Viva La OM!!!

[mandowilli]

Agreed. The OM is all about the position shifts. I just could not get anywhere on it until starting to experiment with them. As for the capo, the reason that I use it is purely to be heard in a jam with more than one guitar.

[rmcintos]

Thanks, John! That helps quite a bit.

I'm just venting some frustration because I was thinking about the tune Peeler's Jacket. I've been having a wee bit of trouble getting the B part up to speed, even after quite a bit of experimentation with the position shifting. John's post though gave me some good food for thought...hhhmmmm..

As far as tunes are concerned, I've been drawn to reels and jigs lately. Kind of an energy thing I guess:

The Old Grey Cat
The Wind that Shakes the Barley/Mason's Apron
Langstrom's Pony
The Monaghan
Old Hag You Have Killed Me/The Hag with the Money

--Rob

[zoukboy]

I'm just venting some frustration because I was thinking about the tune Peeler's Jacket. I've been having a wee bit of trouble getting the B part up to speed, even after quite a bit of experimentation with the position shifting.

That one can be a booger. Here's how I finger the B part:

gagf d2df|gfga bgaf|gagf d2eg|fdcA B~G3|
2421 4 41 2112 4141 2421 4 02 1420 1 4

gagf d2df|gfga bgaf|gbag fdeg|1 fdcA B~G3:||
2421 4 41 2112 4141 1421 1402 1420 2 4

|2 fdcA BGAF||
1420 2403

[groveland]

<span style='font-family:courier'>gagf d2df&#124;gfga bgaf&#124;gagf d2eg&#124;fdcA B~G3&#124;
2421 4 41 2112 4141 2421 4 02 1420 1 4

gagf d2df&#124;gfga bgaf&#124;gbag fdeg&#124;1 fdcA B~G3:&#124;&#124;
2421 4 41 2112 4141 1421 1402 # 1420 2 4

# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # #&#124;2 fdcA BGAF&#124;&#124;
# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # 1420 2403</span>

Forgive me for changing the font - I was having trouble reading it. <span style='font-size:7pt;line-height:100%'>Now to play it... Hmmm...</span>

[groveland]

I wouldn't play an instrument that couldn't handle any key- so if the problem is me, I'm gonna figure out a way to solve the problem so I don't blame the instrument.

Bb scale:

string 4: G A Bb C (0 2 3 5) # # # #fingers: 0 1 2 4
string 3: D Eb F G #( 0 1 3 5) # # # fingers: 0 1 2 4
string 2: A Bb C D Eb (0 1 3 5) # #fingers: 0 1 1 3 4
string 1: F G A Bb (1 3 5 6) # # # # fingers: #1 1 3 4

I solve it this way, which works better for me...

Bb scale:

string 4: G A Bb C (0 2 3 5) # # # #fingers: 0 1 2 4
string 3: D Eb F G #( 0 1 3 5) # # # fingers: 0 1 2 4
string 2: A Bb C D Eb (0 1 3 5) # #fingers: 0 1 2 4 4
string 1: F G A Bb (1 3 5 6) # # # # fingers: #1 2 4 4

...Saving finger double-duty for half steps.

[jmcgann]

Viva la difference! I find shifting with the pinky leads to global warming and nuclear meltdowns, YMMV

[mandogrrl]

I believe that John McGann would say that it's o.k. to use
a capo on the OM. At least that's what he told me.

I just love the sound of the OM. I've been listening to Tim O'Brien and Daryl Scott's CD "Reel Time". Really nice octave playing on that.

[jmcgann]

I believe that John McGann would say that it's o.k. to use
a capo on the OM. At least that's what he told me.

Heck yeah, of course it's alright. I just expect myself to use a capo because I might want the sound of the open strings in other keys, and not because the scale length of the instrument doesn't allow me to play something...and not because it's a "hard key". Since I play jazz sometimes, which can change keys quickly, I need to be able to do it without moving a capo every 3 seconds...Those open strings can be really crucial to getting a certain sound, especially in so-called roots music. The end totally justifies the means in that case. Capo away if you like the sound!

I like to capo at the 5th fret to get the Poor Man's Mandola, since I don't own one!

[Jim Broyles]

Heck yeah, of course it's alright. I just expect myself to use a capo ...not because it's a "hard key".

That's one of the keys to becoming a complete player. I kind of wish bluegrass guitar flatpickers had learned "G run " type licks in every key back in the old days. For example, I kind of think it's a little odd to capo for the key of A on a guitar, because there are still open chords for the I, IV and V in A on an open guitar, and there are cool licks and standard bg type stuff one can do in open A. Even the G run lays pretty decent in A.

[jmcgann]

I'll sometimes play bluegrass guitar in A without a capo. When I was younger, I used to do it all the time, even in B w/o capo, mostly to be defiant.

I have mellowed with age and realized the capo is not a bad thing when it's super powers are used for good, not evil

[steve V. johnson]

John sez, "I'll sometimes play bluegrass guitar in A without a capo. When I was younger, I used to do it all the time, even in B w/o capo, mostly to be defiant."

I do too, but just outta pure native ignorance. #

stv

[Avi Ziv]

I hate that high b.

I hear you! Three things that might help:

1) When playing any stringed instrument, it's a good idea to be sure your left hand alignment is good. The fingers should not touch each other, they should splay open right from the base of the hand, the "duck web" between the fingers should be pretty wide open.

2) Experiment with thumb position in back of the neck (or closer to the fingerboard)

Interesting. This was some of the good advice I received from Angelina Carberry at a recent lesson I had with her. Although this was on tenor banjo, the problem is the same. Angelina has very small hands, yet she get get around the banjo fingerboard amazingly well. We were trying to debug my problems getting up to the high B and she made the same observations as John has. Coming from mandolin, my fingers are not able to spread apart as much as a guitar or banjo player. I need to work on that. Often her left hand rotated around the neck, supporting it in the back with her thumb. The challenge there (for me) is how to support the instrument enough to let the left hand move about more freely.

Another thing I noticed and discussed was how she would pick musical paths such that her ring finger was often supporting the hand on a near-by fret (on same or another string). This gave the pinky a more stable position. Some of the musical variations she used helped with these high B approaches. It was fascinating in a form-follows-function kind of way. The artistry though was such that it didn't sound contrived. Everything worked well together. We spent some time discussing ways to get up to the high B on some common Irish tunes such as Silver Spear and Sally Garden.

Sitting a foot away from her for an hour and a half and working interactively gave me a better understanding than I could have gotten any other way.

We also worked on tone but that's a more banjo-specific topic.

Avi

[entau]

rumor has it the NATO inspectors found a whole wharehouse full of capos at Sadam Hussain's headquarters -
No one can tell what evil he planned to unleash on the fretted string instrument world - but thanks to GWB - that dire plan has been thwarted.

I hope this online community can find a way to put these potentially evil devices to some good.

[jmcgann]

The challenge there (for me) is how to support the instrument enough to let the left hand move about more freely.

Hi Avi- sorry for asking an obvious question, but are you using a strap? The instrument shouldn't need to be supported much by the left hand, which would really limit your mobility.

The only left hand point of contact I make with the neck other than the fingers is the pad directly under the 1st finger. It does help point the neck 'up' somewhat, but it's a small assist.

I hope this online community can find a way to put these potentially evil devices to some good.

How about lip clamps to use on those with whom we disagree? Weapons of mass detuning!

[Avi Ziv]

The challenge there (for me) is how to support the instrument enough to let the left hand move about more freely.

Hi Avi- sorry for asking an obvious question, but are you using a strap? The instrument shouldn't need to be supported much by the left hand, which would really limit your mobility.

John - Yes, I'm using a strap but I may need to adjust it better. By the way, Angelina wears her banjo strap on one shoulder like a BG mando player

Thanks,
Avi

[otterly2k]

as a relatively small handed person, I find a strap to support the instrument absolutely necessary... if I'm holding up the neck with my left hand, it really limits my mobility. Another thing I've found helpful is to strap it up relatively high on my body -- so it is in front of my chest... makes for better left hand position (for me)