Octave mandolin scale length

**Rick Lindstrom** · Jul-03-2007, 5:16pm

I'm looking at a nice used OM with a 20" scale- seems a little shorter than "normal".

Wondering if it'll work OK and whether appropriate strings can be found.

Thanks-

Rick

**otterly2k** · Jul-03-2007, 5:53pm

Rick - I have two OM's with a scale length of 20.5". I like them short, since I have small hands. Truly, while there are tendencies, there are no hard and fast standards in OM world. OM's seem to range anywhere from 19" to about 23.5"... longer than that is typically consider bouzouki territory.

So 20" is on the short end of the range, but will definitely work. Most of the pre-packaged sets are intended for somewhat longer scale instruments, so you may well end up putting together custom sets in slightly thicker gauges. I generally use 14-24-34-46, which ought to work well enough on a 20" scale as well. At least it's a place to start, and you can tweak from there based on whether it feels/sounds right.

I generally order loop end singles from JustStrings.com, but there are some other places to get them. Or you can get ball end singles at most guitar stores and break the balls out and use the loops. I find that to be more of a pain than I want to deal with, but lots of people do it that way.

**steve V. johnson** · Jul-03-2007, 6:09pm

Hey, Rick,

I just answered you over in the other section! LOL!!

Best,

stv

**Steve L** · Jul-03-2007, 6:46pm

What brand of instrument is it, Rick?

**sean parker** · Jul-04-2007, 4:32am

rick-my om is 22" and like otterly2k has mentioned, the scales vary. i guess, the shorter the scale the heavier the string - i think that makes sense. i came from guitar and at first, it was like playing rubber bands, but now that i'm really playing the thing, the scale is fine.

unfortunately, there are only two brands of "offcial" octave mandolin strings (GHS&D'Add) and if you wanted heavier you had to get the ball ends off guitar strings (or raise the action a bit.) like otterly (who was really helpful when i first started posting here), it is a major pain to get the balls off. it can be done, but do you want to sit around doing it...eight times over? i'm actually going to put a string order through after this, and i'm planning to a buy a bunch of loop singles to try.

otterly2k--hi. about a month ago i said i'd report back on octave strings from pyramid & TI. well, pyramid only make mandolin strings, and TI is really confusing due to different terminology over in europe. juststrings couldn't help so they put me through to TI's distributor. from there it got kind of muddy;

"In Europe, the Octave Mandolin is known as the Octave Mandola which is why such confusion arises with the termenology. Both names refer to the same set of strings, the 174 (I will refer to the set number going forward so as not to confuse myself).
The 174 set has a scale length of approximately 27-29” across each string; however, this tuning is E A D G. Are you in fact looking for this tuning or are you looking for a tuning of A D G C? If so, the 164 set which is known as the Alto Mandolin set has roughly a 20-22” scale length that might work for you. I look forward to working through this together in hopes we can find something that works for you and your instrument."

i replied. got no reply. so i gave up. if you can make sense of the above info then let me know!

**Rick Lindstrom** · Jul-04-2007, 5:42am

Steve L. asked "what type of instrument?".

It's a Weber Bridger built to custom specs with a 20" scale, mahogany back and sides and a few other details. I'm considering it because I have a Bridger mandolin that has turned out to be a really good instrument.

Rick

**steve V. johnson** · Jul-04-2007, 11:23am

Hey Rick,

Oooooh, cool, a 20" Bridger! #Good for you! #Very nice.

I hope that these replies help you decide to go ahead and get it.

stv

**camando** · Jul-04-2007, 11:35am

Hi Rick

I have a 20" custom octave and I use J76 mandola strings. They work fine.

Chris in Canada

**Greg Ashton** · Jul-04-2007, 1:30pm

Yes, I've used Newtone mandola strings on my 21 inch scale octave (tuned GDAE). The J76's are a bit heavier so they'd be about right for a 20 inch scale.

**MandoSquirrel** · Jul-04-2007, 9:24pm

Originally Posted by (sean parker @ July 04 2007, 05:32)

If so, the 164 set which is known as the Alto Mandolin set has roughly a 20-22” scale length that might work for you. I look forward to working through this together in hopes we can find something that works for you and your instrument."

i replied. got no reply. so i gave up. if you can make sense of the above info then let me know!

TI 164's will fit at most a 16" scale; I have them on my mandola, CGDA, they barely fit. They did transform this Cheap instrument quite nicely.
well, maybe if there's no space between the tailpiece & bridge they may fit a tad longer.

**sean parker** · Jul-05-2007, 4:34am

mandosquirrel - well, how 'bout that. i gave them my scale and tuning....

anyway, i know how specific TI strings can be with guitar strings with tension 'n' all and sometimes their guages appear bizarre (their strings for ac gtr has a .060 for the low E but it feels like a .054-very freaky), so i had to ask. i've given up now. someone will know somewhere, whether they do strings for octave mando. it's not life or death, however.

**David Westwick** · Jul-05-2007, 4:56pm

Originally Posted by (sean parker @ July 04 2007, 03:32)

"In Europe, the Octave Mandolin is known as the Octave Mandola which is why such confusion arises with the termenology. Both names refer to the same set of strings, the 174 (I will refer to the set number going forward so as not to confuse myself).
The 174 set has a scale length of approximately 27-29” across each string; however, this tuning is E A D G. Are you in fact looking for this tuning or are you looking for a tuning of A D G C? If so, the 164 set which is known as the Alto Mandolin set has roughly a 20-22” scale length that might work for you. I look forward to working through this together in hopes we can find something that works for you and your instrument."

Those scale lengths don't make any sense. I've played in a couple of European mandolin orchestras (usually played the mandola part on a mandocello -- so I sat surrounded by octave mandolins aka octave mandolas aka tenor mandolas aka tenors etc.). The GDAE mandolas had scale lengths that were considerably shorter than the ~25" scale of my cello.

Perhaps it's a metric (mis)coversion thing -- if he was converting 2 cm = 1 inch (which would give scale lengths of 21 1/4 -22 7/8" for an OM and 15 3/4 - 17 1/4" for the alto dola) the scales would be pretty reasonable....

**sean parker** · Jul-06-2007, 4:53am

david, i haven't got a clue. the quote came from an e-mail from the distributor connollyandco.com #they should know their stuff right? both the tunings mentioned are in fourths. is that how they tune the mandolins in european mando orchestras? what did the octave players string their instruments with? thanks.

**PseudoCelt** · Jul-06-2007, 7:01am

Originally Posted by (sean parker @ July 06 2007, 05:53)

...both the tunings mentioned are in fourths. is that how they tune the mandolins in european mando orchestras?...

They are just naming the strings from high to low (EADG, ADGC), rather than low to high (GDAE, CGDA).

Patrick

**jmcgann** · Jul-06-2007, 1:46pm

Scale lengths do vary pretty wildly on the instruments. The Sobell is about 23" which I think is the upper limit in terms of OM GDAE tuning where you are not limited to "modal" concepts, capos, or "just" accompaniment- in other words, an instrument upon which you can do anything.

I haven't played any 20" instruments that could compare to the tonal response of a longer scale- but I bet there will be one on the scene before long, from the laboratory of a mad innovative luthier...hopefully before we all get arthritis!

**Tim F Thornton** · Jul-07-2007, 1:15am

Hey you D'addario j76 users:

So the Mandola set is long enough to suit a 22 inch scale (I think that's what my standard bridger octave is)? If so, that does seem like a nice one-package way to get a heavier set than the j80 d'addario set designed for octave mandolin.

Just checking to make sure I understand!
Thanks, all.

**sean parker** · Jul-07-2007, 3:30am

Originally Posted by (PseudoCelt @ July 06 2007, 08:01)

They are just naming the strings from high to low (EADG, ADGC), rather than low to high (GDAE, CGDA).

oops! i didn't even notice. much embarrassment on my half. i need more sleep. #

#

**Greg Ashton** · Jul-07-2007, 10:21am

Originally Posted by (mandognome @ July 07 2007, 02:15)

Hey you D'addario j76 users:

So the Mandola set is long enough to suit a 22 inch scale (I think that's what my standard bridger octave is)? If so, that does seem like a nice one-package way to get a heavier set than the j80 d'addario set designed for octave mandolin.

Actually, I think the J76 would be too heavy/high tension for a 22" scale tuned GDAE. We were saying they suited a 20" scale which is quite a difference. You could always get them and tune down a whole tone. Put the capo at 2nd fret for GDAE.

**Tim F Thornton** · Jul-08-2007, 12:53pm

Thanks crispinfoxtrot. That is helpful. This actually relates to a Thread I started earlier, but now I feel equipped to finish my experiment. I think with the D'addario j76 mandola set I should be able to tune down 2 or 3 half steps and get the tuning I wanted to try: EDF#C# low to high. I'll start with that set then maybe customize a few individual courses. Using string gauge calculators, I think I'll be able to keep the neck tension close to the original.

If I can do the 3 half step tune-down instead of only a wholestep, the fretboard markers will be a little more intuitive when capoed at fret 3, and with no capo people may be closer to correct when they call it "baritone mandolin!"

I'm going to wait until this set of J-80s loses it's jangle, then I'll let you know how it goes.