New Mandolin for Irish traditional music

**oldparish** · May-19-2004, 5:14am

I've been playing a cheap Kentucky A oval hole Mandolin for a number of years and I want to purchase a new one, my budget is round $1000. There isnt much of a selection here in Ireland and I've been trying to gather as much information as possible. The models that I've played in my price range are a Breedlove Quartz OO and a Tacoma M3.
I dont know weather I'd be better going for one of these or something like a second hand Rigel A+deluxe.
I'm only used to playing an A style Oval hole mandolin and wonder is this better than an F hole for my kind of playing.
I would appreciate any words of wisdom from other players out there on what they might recommend. Thank you.

**Martin Jonas** · May-19-2004, 6:14am

Amongst Irish mandolinists, the type of mandolin most commonly found is the flat-top oval hole (often also called "Celtic"). Whether they're actually better for this type of music than carved instruments is debatable (I like to play Irish tunes on an F5 clone), but it is certainly much cheaper to get a decent handmade mandolin of this type than it is to get a decent handmade carved mandolin. Several good British makers of flattop mandolins are well within your price range and with you being in Ireland, shipping should be quite reasonable. You may want to try a Fylde Touchstone, for example, which is £550 from Acoustic Music in Brighton. Moon Mandolins are about the same price, also from Acoustic Music. I see that Hobgoblin have a sale on the entry-level Moon, which puts it at £399 (don't confuse it with their "Blue Moon" brand, which is a nasty cheapo). Paul Shippey and (the Rolls Royce option) Sobell build in the same style, but above your budget.

This is the style of mandolin played, for example, by Andy Irvine. But, as I said, there's no reason why Irish music needs to be played on a flattop; there's plenty of players who play it on a carved mandolin. It's all down to your personal taste.

Martin
(Incidentally, you may have a better response to your question if you post it either in the "Information about mandolins" or the "Celtic" forum. The "Equipment" forum is really intended for strings, spare parts and accessories, not to discuss instruments.)

**Mike Crocker** · May-19-2004, 6:26am

The Moon is a nice mandolin. Solid maple back and sides, spruce top, made in Scotland. I've been playing one for a couple of years with no troubles, though it's been hotrodded a bit. It prefers lighter strings.

Peace, Mooh.

**ira** · May-19-2004, 10:04am

www.kennaquhair.com check it out. you will come in at your budget with a mandolin used by some pro celtic players, with a pickup installed, and a custom case.

**Jim M.** · May-19-2004, 10:11am

Freshwater is in Scotland. Very good instruments for the money, and David is a very nice guy too work with. Lots of us Yanks have been buying his instruments and are quite happy with them. Joe F. and Mad Dawg both own his mandolins and I'm sure will chime in here.

**mad dawg** · May-19-2004, 11:00am

Yes, I've got a Freshwater, and love it. His mandolins are currently priced at 350 Pounds (or about 500 Euros?), so to agree with Jim, it is a great value for a handmade instrument.

I picked up one of his 10-string walnut-body mandolins used recently, and it has incredible sustain and a wonderful tone for trad, IMHO. (I'm still trying to figure out how to use the lower course, though.

). It also has an attractive tear-drop shape that makes it look the part of a Celtic mando as well.

If you go to his Inverness-based web site, you'll see that he has a great variety of mandolin family instruments (his mandolins alone come in three body depths), and he offers three sound hole shapes (O, A, and "Celtic Knot"). But be forewarned: David's pre-sale customer service is as legendary as his post-sale service, so you can expect a phone call from him in response to your email queries about his instruments.

NB: I would not be surprised if I have David build me a standard mandolin with an A-hole some day, and/or perhaps a CBOM of some sort (wife -- and budget -- permitting

).

**Dan Adams** · May-19-2004, 3:42pm

I have a 84' Flatiron 2M that is an absolute killer Celtic mandolin. #The little flat body has great tone and sustain, and as an added bonus the volume is unbelievable for a small flat bodied mandolin. Plus, it has enough cutting power that it carries itself just fine in a bluegrass jam. #I saw a Flatiron 2MC (curly maple) on ebay, Cafe ads(?) just this last week. #Found in an old 'gone out of business' instrument store closet. #It was a brand new, 20 year old mandolin. #I don't know if it is still on the market. #It was only $585.00. #Whomever scored that one got a great deal!

Is that a tennis racket? #True story; carrying the Flatiron through the detectors at the airport. #Dan

**peter.coombe** · May-19-2004, 6:07pm

Mary Shannon and Brendan O'Regan play my oval hole mandolins, so they must work well with traditional Irish music. A bit out of your price range though.

**8ch(pl)** · May-22-2004, 8:58pm

I would look at a Mid Missouri, the maple, walnut or rosewood models in particular. I think the mahogany one may lack a bit of volume. I own an M-4 (Rosewood) and love it.

**John Flynn** · May-22-2004, 10:33pm

I think you have to consider how you pesonally are going to use the instrument, not just the musical genre. Ovals have the sweet, sustained sound, which is great if you can hear it. If you are going to play melody in big acoustic sessions, however, that sweet sound is going to get run over and you are not going to be heard. Something like a used f-hole Rigel will have a better chance than most ovals of cutting through the din and making a difference.

**revray** · May-24-2004, 8:44am

Check out Brian Dean's work at www.bfolk.com

**oldparish** · Jun-01-2004, 12:46am

Thanks fellas for all the valuable information and all the interest, Ruaidhri.

**Jeff_Stallard** · Jun-03-2004, 7:18am

Originally Posted by (jflynnstl @ May 22 2004, 23:33)

Something like a used f-hole Rigel will have a better chance than most ovals of cutting through the din and making a difference.

I would agree with you if we were limiting our scope to carved-top mandolins. However, my oval-holed bowlback is louder than any f-holed carved-top I've ever heard. Also, my oval-holed portuguese mando can definitely hold its own against f-holes.

But yes, when discussing only A and F styles, f-holes are the way to go for volume.

**Rondo** · Jun-04-2004, 6:01pm

I think the Beard Celtic mandolin is a fantastic instrument. Carved top, great playability, A1 craftmanship. Should be a great value as little known mandolin craftsman. I think they are only sold by Charles Johnson @ vintagemandolin.com as I have only seen them there but played one - fantastic. Great mando for celtic!

**craigtoo** · Jun-06-2004, 2:56am

I play an F in my local sessions and it's awesome.

enjoy the hunt,
craig

**mad dawg** · Jun-08-2004, 5:23pm

OldParish: How is your quest going? Have you narrowed down your options yet?

**danb** · Jun-08-2004, 6:18pm

Ruaidhri, try a Lebeda A5. Great value for the price range you're in. I can drown out a box with my Lebeda F5 at Irish sessions in London. Oval holed mandos sound great at home, but out at a session I am completely a convert to a bright-sounding F-holed instrument.

The players at the sessions I've taken mine to all tend to ask for a go on it and write down the maker's details!

**oldparish** · Jun-09-2004, 3:21am

Hi Lads, Ruaidhri here,
I havnt purchased a Mandolin yet but hopefully in the next two weeks as I'm off to Washington state for the summer. I'll try to get one before I arrive or just after as theres loads more of them there and very few to play round with here. I have to be armed soon after I arrive for my daughters wedding. I play a Moon Octave Mandolin and really like the tone from it and a Moon Mandolin would be very nice as well. As for American Mando's I was thinking of a Rigel A+ ovel hole or may be an F hole if I can find one second hand, or a Breedlove Quartz 00, or a Weber Bridger second hand. I just looked at some of the new messages and I'll look some info up now. Thanks for all the help and interest, Ruaidhri.

**Dagger Gordon** · Jun-09-2004, 4:55am

I think volume is very important in Irish music, as you're almost certainly going to want to play in a pub session. For this reason I would rule out certain types of mandolin, which might sound sweet at home, as Dan notes, but are no use in a session.

I would include in this old Gibson oval holes for example, which are often suggested as a good value 'Celtic' mandolin. It seems to me that the qualities which make for a good 'bluegrass' mandolin - ie loud enough to compete with a banjo- are probably also those which make it be heard in a Celtic session.

Dan suggests looking at a Lebeda A5 and that seems wise to me. Check out Acoustic Music in Brighton ,England (they've an advert on the cafe front page). As regards Fyldes, I've found that the ones I've seen have been too quiet.

**GBG** · Jun-09-2004, 7:46am

In line with the last two posts, I would strongly consider a Breedlove Quartz KF or OF. They have a strong treble cutting tone with the tone bar bracing that will project well in a session.

**POB** · Jun-09-2004, 9:08am

If you fancy something made in Ireland, check out Joe Foley. He's an excellent and very experienced maker and a great guy. He builds with Irish music in mind, and his instruments have bucketloads of volume. I'm not sure what his price range is nowadays, but he always was very reasonable, in my opinion. I have a 1992 Foley bouzouki and I love it.