Fretless om

[Huda]

Hi all,

What do you think? What would an OM sound like if you took the frets off?

I am trying to play Arabic maqamim without spending the money on an oud or a saz. I added quarter-tone frets to mu OM, but they don't sound too hot. Now I am considering taking the frets off of my OM. What do you think?

Regarding regular (little) mandolins, the answer is no. The sustain would be non-exisitent and it would sound like a flat-picked fiddle. But what about the longer scale OM? How would that sound?

Thanks,
Huda

[Bertram Henze]

Fingers tend to dampen the sustain away, with any scale. Try a fretless bass, for instance, it goes "boo boo", not "bonggg bonggg". Try to set a finger over one fret of your OM, instead of between two frets - same result.
Fretless is for instruments where sustain is not wanted or provided by other means (such as bowed instruments).

An alternative approach for unusual intonation might be frets made of strings wrapped around the neck (which are thus adjustable), like on medieaval lutes. But don't nail me to that.

Bertram

[Michael Wolf]

I have a Oud on loan for a few weeks now and it has very good sustain. Since I try this instrument I'm also thinking about a fretless OM, because I'd like to play the 5th tuning, so that I can play my whole repertoire.
I wonder why nobody has done it yet because I assume that it'd make sense. The fretless sound and playing is much fun.

[Avi Ziv]

I would just get an oud as the sustain from a fretless OM would be too little. An interesting idea would be the Godin Glissentar which is an 11-string fretless nylon string amplified instrument. I haven't seen one in person but it has the potential to be the basis of various unusual experiments in sound/tunings

Avi

[mandelect]

I've been thinking along the same lines myself. I tried raising the nut on my OM and fastened a thin steel rule over the frets - just to get and idea of the possibilities. Crude, but it worked quite well, and with the good finger technique sustain is quite good. Ultimately I prefered the sound of a single course string but you may think otherwise. I'm thinking of having an electric built, or converting a cheap short scale guitar. I think Darol Anger once had a fretless electric OM built with double courses.The forums at:

Unfretted.com are a good resource for all things unfretted.

Another possibility is an OM tuned baritone ukulele; I removed the frets on my cheap nylon strung Samick and it sounds wonderful. The fretlines help intonation and also aid development of technique. For an idea of how fretless nylon strung guitar sounds, try listening to Ugur Varol on fretless classical:

Ugur Varol on fretless classical

Also Erkan Ogur plays fretless classical and fretless electric guitar. Try this ebow driven piece:

Erkan Ogur on fretless electric (Ebow) Erkan is a stunningly good fretless guitarist and his recordings though hard to find, are well worth seeking out.

It sounds like a great idea - go for it!

[zoukboy]

I don't think a fretless OM would work very well. I play oud in a variety of tunings and I can tell you that its comparatively low string tension allows it to sustain more than I would expect an OM to. Also, oud tunings tend to be in 4ths with an occasional 3rd or 2nd. 5ths tunings on fretless instruments are pretty difficult to finger accurately and in tune on the scale length of an oud (22"-24") and would be even worse on an OM.

Why not get a Saz or Buzuq? These are related to the bouzouki and have tied-on nylon frets with "extra" frets for non-western notes. Buzuqs typically have 18 frets to the octave instead of 12 and sazs have that or a few more. And then there is the Laouto, the Greek steel strung lute that traditionally is fretted with 12 but which some players are experimenting with the 27 fret system common in Turkish classical music. See my website for recently made examples of a buzuq and an "extra-fretted" laouto: http://rogerlandes.com

[catmandu2]

Ouds and sazs are available on ebay quite reasonably--you can get a quality instrument for less than $200. Also, as Roger mentioned, you can tune the oud any way you want.

[PhilGE]

I would still be interested in somene playing fretless with hard rubber thimbles or the likes to cover the fingertips and allow for more ringing of the string. A hard rubber would allow "grip" of the string while not deadening the string as much as your fingertips. So, instead of fingerpicks, you have finger "frets" of sorts. The "thimbles" could be shaped so end in a ridge to allow for yet a "cleaner" "fretting."

-Phil

[zoukboy]

I would still be interested in somene playing fretless with hard rubber thimbles or the likes to cover the fingertips and allow for more ringing of the string. A hard rubber would allow "grip" of the string while not deadening the string as much as your fingertips. So, instead of fingerpicks, you have finger "frets" of sorts. The "thimbles" could be shaped so end in a ridge to allow for yet a "cleaner" "fretting."

Oud players often use the nails of their left hand fingers as movable frets. Makes for a much brighter tone than the pads. Also check out sarod players - steel strings on a fretless stainless steel fingerboard "fretted" with LH nails. Pretty close to what you are talking about.

[hokelore]

Oud players often use the nails of their left hand fingers as movable frets. Makes for a much brighter tone than the pads. Also check out sarod players - steel strings on a fretless stainless steel fingerboard "fretted" with LH nails. Pretty close to what you are talking about.

I use my left hand nail when I play fretless banjo. It's a cleaner sound than the fingertips, plus more sustain and more precise intonation. It requires a somewhat different hand position, though. I can't quite get comfortable in it. Maybe if I played more fretless.

Tim