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Thread: How do you hear yourself?

  1. #1
    Registered User Pete Braccio's Avatar
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    Default How do you hear yourself?

    OK, so I'm not a complete novice playing with groups. However, I've never been able to hear myself well when playing with others. It's actually gotten to the point where I'm now hunched over my mando (or octave) with my "good" ear pointed towards the sound hole. Not the best way to play.

    So, any tricks out there on making it easier hearing what you play?

    Pete
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    Registered User pickloser's Avatar
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    Default Re: How do you hear yourself?

    Following advice I got at an Alan Bibey workshop, I've been practicing how to play when I can't hear myself. I record chord accompaniment on a Zoom H2 and, using the earbuds, play it loud enough that I can only vaguely hear my mandolin. Makes it a "normal condition" when I can't hear myself at a jam. The inability to hear my own playing at jams used to make me so change my technique--hunching over, trying to play louder, gripping the pick too tightly, tensing up--that I didn't like what I heard even when I could hear it. Now that I spend some practice time playing while not hearing my mandolin well, I can usually resist those tone and speed killing reactions, and I do much better in the jams.

    Well...at least I think I do. I can't really hear what's happening, but it feels right.

    It also helped to be told by a truly excellent local player, who seemed to make no effort to try and play louder at jams, "if they want to hear me, they'll just have to play quieter."

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    Default Re: How do you hear yourself?

    Press record.

    I had this same problem. I couldn't get a clear indication of how I sounded when playing in sessions, and laboring under eight to twelve fiddles, I felt that my instrument was generally quiet and difficult to hear. However, a new friend invited me to a party at his home at which he invited a few other musicians to jam (among many other guests). He set up a microphone at the edge of the room to record the session. The sound was less than superb, more like a bootleg. However, it gave me my first indication of how my mandolin sounded--how well it cut through the other noise--and the strengths and weaknesses of my playing. Since then, I've been using Audacity or a webcam to diagnose my playing. With a webcam I can not only hear what I am playing, I can see if I am doing something that is making it difficult to play clearly.

  4. #4
    Destroyer of Mandolins
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    Default Re: How do you hear yourself?

    Learn to focus. Playing in ensemble is an acquired skill. Imagine singing in a 300 voice choir where you can't hear your own voice. How does it work? Concentration and listening skill.
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    Registered User grassrootphilosopher's Avatar
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    Default Re: How do you hear yourself?

    There are quite a number of factors that determine if you can hear yourself or not.

    For one, mandolins throw the sound out in front wherefore it is often enough difficult to estimate if youŽre loud enough for others or not. You tend to overplay yourself while youŽre drowning out your fellow musicians. They then try to battle your wall of sound and as they play louder, you hear less of yourself.

    The solution to the problem mentioned is to indeed focus on the sound and loudness of the instruments that you play with. Encourage the players that you play with not to overplay. This is quite difficult - especially in jam sessions -. Yet when you manage to play at the dynamics that are needed for each instrument (and its solo) you will have a very dynamic sound in the band/ensemble context.

    Another factor is the quality of the instruments in an ensemble context. If you have a beginner mandolin that has to put up with a prewar flathead, a prewar D-28 a fiddle and a slap-bass you are sunk (if the dynamics arenŽt there; even if they are, your mandolin sound will allways take the back seat).
    Olaf

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    Phylum Octochordata Mike Bromley's Avatar
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    Default Re: How do you hear yourself?

    I just don't play if it's too loud.
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    Registered User Bren's Avatar
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    Default Re: How do you hear yourself?

    Hold your mandolin away from your body a bit - let the sound resonate out the back.

    There are toneguard frames you can buy to give the back some air.
    Bren

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    Default Re: How do you hear yourself?

    This is truly one where I can say...any way I can! A typical problem for bassists, particularly..

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    Registered User Randi Gormley's Avatar
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    Default Re: How do you hear yourself?

    If I can't hear myself, I can't hear my mistakes, either, which is kind of liberating. That being said, I've often thought that if I couldn't hear myself, nobody else could either, but I've been proved wrong several times. We can get as many as 35 of us playing at one time, and I'll have an audience member come up or someone from the band turn around and give me a compliment on my playing even though I couldn't hear myself. I just try to go with the flow. Especially session playing, it's not about me anyway, it's about the group and the tune.
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    but that's just me Bertram Henze's Avatar
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    Default Re: How do you hear yourself?

    Quote Originally Posted by Randi Gormley View Post
    an audience member come up or someone from the band turn around and give me a compliment on my playing even though I couldn't hear myself.
    I would find that kind of creepy - being a superstar and not even having been there myself. It's a bit like talking in your sleep never knowing what is disclosed.
    I have always found ways to hear my own instrument - playing louder is one. Using body contact conduction from the back is also good, but works better on larger instruments.
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    Default Re: How do you hear yourself?

    Resonator mandolin?

    Another cafe member has relayed that they got a pickup installed on their acoustic and got a "headphones" amp with an earbud jack. They usually put in one bud so they can hear themselves over the din (without amplifying to the other players) and also still hear the din...

    Unfortunately, I'm not good enough to really feel the need to hear myself play all the time. But, the advice to try to not overplay is good advice. You'll also probably get to a point where you can feel when you're hitting it correctly, based on both you fretting/picking hands but also the vibrations from the mandolin itself...it'll just feel right when you're on, not so much when you're not.
    Chuck

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    but that's just me Bertram Henze's Avatar
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    Default Re: How do you hear yourself?

    Quote Originally Posted by CES View Post
    Unfortunately, I'm not good enough to really feel the need to hear myself play all the time.
    Nice and modest, but I understand that hearing yourself is a neccessary feedback to avoid mistakes rather than a commodity for the player's own enjoyment.

    A bad car driver shouldn't close his eyes arguing "I just can't bear the look of what I do" either.
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    Default Re: How do you hear yourself?

    As Bren suggested.......do you use a Tonegard?
    Makes my mando much louder from the players perspective......

  14. #14
    Registered User chip's Avatar
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    Default Re: How do you hear yourself?

    I use a schertler pickup and a ZT Lunchbox Acoustic Amp. Works great, portable and has 200 watts with a gain/reverb/& volume controls...

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    Registered User Cheryl Watson's Avatar
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    Default Re: How do you hear yourself?

    Are you referring to playing on stage (individually miked or around one or two mics) or in a jam?

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    Default Re: How do you hear yourself?

    Ya gotta admit, Bertram knows how to turn a phrase.
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    Registered User Pete Braccio's Avatar
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    Default Re: How do you hear yourself?

    Hi all,
    Thanks for all the suggestions. In answer to some of your questions;
    I'm playing and octave mandolin with a tonegard
    Others in my group can hear me, I just have trouble hearing myself. Not good when you're providing music for a function.
    Happens in performances ( no amplification) and jams
    Gonna do a couple of gigs next week with sound reinforcement. That should be a bit better for this issue, but it will open up other issues.

    Pete
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    Registered User John Flynn's Avatar
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    Default Re: How do you hear yourself?

    This would be kind of radical and I admit I haven't had it done, yet, but I've seriously considered it: There are some instruments made with an additional sound port on the side of the instrument facing the the head of the player. You could find a luthier to retrofit such a hole in the side of your OM. I have played a couple of instruments with these ports and the concept seems to work pretty well.

    One thing I have done is run into a small amp that I aimed at my head, not the audience. It was just enough for me to hear what I was doing. It was like a personal monitor of sorts. I think the earlier suggestion of a headphone amp with an ear bud is good also. I strongly recommend the iGtr. It's inexpensive and with the effects off, it has a very clear acoustic sound.

  19. #19
    Registered User Pete Braccio's Avatar
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    Default Re: How do you hear yourself?

    The iGtr look kinda cool. I tried one of the Vox microamps a couple of years ago and didn't like it.

    Pete
    Pete Braccio

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  20. #20
    Registered User John Flynn's Avatar
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    Default Re: How do you hear yourself?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Braccio View Post
    The iGtr look kinda cool. I tried one of the Vox microamps a couple of years ago and didn't like it.

    Pete
    Yeah, I tried a couple other headphone amps before the iGtr, including the Pocket Rockit, and the Pandora PX4, which is like three times the price of the iGtr, and the iGtr wins hands down for tone and ease of use.

  21. #21
    Registered User grassrootphilosopher's Avatar
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    Default Re: How do you hear yourself?

    Another aspect of why you may not hear yourself well is the fact, that you play a "midrangey" instrument. The boom boom of a bass goes through and through, the cry of a fiddle pierces your ear, the thump of a banjo clangs out, but a guitar or in your case an octave mando is not necessarily in the sound range that is overly apparent to our ears. IŽd say that dynamics ought to do the trick here. A little lightening up by your fellow musicians and youŽll hear yourself in a solo quite well.
    Olaf

  22. #22
    Mando accumulator allenhopkins's Avatar
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    Default Re: How do you hear yourself?

    Picking a particular instrument out of a "mix" is not just a matter of volume, it's a matter of tonal quality. If you know what your instrument sounds like by itself, you can generally hear its "voice" in the group, even if the other instruments are louder. And if you're holding it, you can also "feel" the vibrations through your body.

    It helps if there aren't similar instruments playing in the same range -- if you're the highest-pitched, or the lowest, or the only one in the middle. The only time I really couldn't separate out my instrument, was in a group with another person also playing English concertina. I really couldn't distinguish his notes from mine, but I suspect that's a characteristic of that particular instrument.

    If I'm the only octave mandolin player in a group, I can pick out the sound of my instrument; my notes move in a range, direction and spacing unlike any other instrument, so my brain can select them and process them.
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    man about town Markus's Avatar
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    Default Re: How do you hear yourself?

    I think the `record the group' advice is great - given how f-hole instruments can project, it can be surprising how much others hear when you don't hear a thing.

  24. #24
    Peace. Love. Mandolin. Gelsenbury's Avatar
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    Default Re: How do you hear yourself?

    I found out yesterday that I seem to have the opposite problem. I hear myself so loudly that I hold back when I play with my two guitarist friends. Until one of them said "Go on, I'm sure you can play that more loudly" (no, he wasn't being ironic).

  25. #25
    Registered User DougC's Avatar
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    Default Re: How do you hear yourself?

    The acoustics of the room can make a big difference. I try to be near a hard surface like a window or brick wall or mirror or even a corner of a room. It bounces the sound back to your ear. Of course it's been said that if I want to hear myself I could play in the bathroom but I just smiled and kept playing.

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