Fretboard extension scoop ?

**Gunback** · Apr-01-2007, 9:40pm

I have a 2004 Gibson Fern. Its a great mandolin, but like everyone else I tend to get a pick slap on the wood, not noticibly, but any player who is fixed on a good tone, I want it to be as close to perfect as I can get it. So I was just wanting to hear some thoughts about neck scooping, or maybe some horror stories of a scoop gone wrong.

**Dan Voight** · Apr-01-2007, 10:07pm

Do you have any pictures of it? I'd have to see it to give it my honest opinion. Scooping the FB isn't difficult but you might not need to.

**Mando Medic** · Apr-02-2007, 7:00am

Many of the folks on this list have either had it done or attempted to do it themselves. In this case, if you live near a mandolin friendly Luthier, I'd say take it to them, pay the $100 to $150 and be done with it. The only couple of horror stories that I know of are the ones from do it yourselfers that used the end radius of a belt sander and the mandolin got away from them, or one case of a dremel tool that did not stop where it was suppose to. There are a lot of options when doing this procedure; such as how deep is enough, what to do about the remaining fret slots, leave the slots open, fill them with what, going below the fret tang opening, flat or beveled, and how many frets to pull? Then there is the issue of the historical value of the instrument. Do you use the existing fret board or do you remove it and install a new one and put the original away for later restoration? Things to think about. Kenc

**sunburst** · Apr-02-2007, 8:18am

I never could figure out what that "Florida" was doing there anyway. I don't know anybody who uses those frets up there, and I don't see any contribution to the design of the F-5 from it...no good contribution anyway, IMO. (Yes, I know about Dave Apollon. I've even had someone request having one fret pulled so the mandolin would look like Dave Apollon's.)
Many builders build without the 29 fret board with the long extension, (30 frets in a few cases when Gibson seemed to want to "one up" themselves) so owning one of those mandos with a shorter extension is a solution to the problem. If theres no long extension anyway, you don't have to worry about scooping it or cutting it off.

But anyway, enough 'mando-philosophy' that you didn't ask for.
Lots of people do scoop the extender, or cut it off; sometimes, first one and then the other, when they find that the pick still clicks on the scooped extender.
I think Ken gives good advice here. Get a luthier to do it, unless you are good with tools, experienced with tools, and very confident in your abilities. If you take it to a luthier to "scoop", know what you want so you don't have to go through the list of things Ken mentioned, or worse, say to the luthier; "Oh...I don't know...what do you think?".

I don't know what scooping or "Floridectomy" will do to the value of mandolins down the road, but I don't expect it to make a huge difference in our lifetimes.

**Sitka** · Apr-02-2007, 8:32am

You can also improve your pick grip. I used to get a really bad clicking sound when I picked. Then I realized that it may come from my technique. I started holding the pick so that only what was needed came into contact with the strings and nothing else. Since then, I don't have the clicking sound and I improved my tone and fluidity of picking. This is just a cheaper way of getting rid of that pick noise.

Micah

**Jerry Byers** · Apr-02-2007, 8:39am

Even the best of them click.

**red7flag** · Apr-02-2007, 8:57am

When I had instruments made for me, I went with the Colling type of extension, angled at about 45 degrees. I an not sure why, but I prefer that esthetically to either the Florida extention or the flat cutoff, that Weber, for example, uses. I have attached a picture of Chris Stanley's take on the 45 degree extension. I like the little point in the middle. Just my take.
Tony

**Jerry Byers** · Apr-02-2007, 9:03am

I agree with you Tony. Of all of the extensions that I have seen, I like the Collings version the best.

I still like my faux frets though.

**Big Joe** · Apr-02-2007, 9:52am

Yes, there are people who do play on those frets and need them. I am not one of them however, and like my extension scooped. Most players do not play that far up the fingerboard so it is not a problem scooping the extension. We do it in our shop for people all the time.

**Frank Ford** · Apr-02-2007, 11:50am

Like-a this:

http://www.frets.com/FRETSPa....ue.html

**Steven Stone** · Apr-02-2007, 3:36pm

IMHO folks who scoop extensions are WIMPS.

I had the frets pulled on my 2002 Fern and replaced with slivers of wood to give me more clearance while maintaining the original look.

But I'd never do that on my '31 Fern. I've just learned to pick without clicking.

**MandoSquirrel** · Apr-02-2007, 4:16pm

Originally Posted by (Sitka @ April 02 2007, 09:32)

You can also improve your pick grip. I used to get a really bad clicking sound when I picked. Then I realized that it may come from my technique. I started holding the pick so that only what was needed came into contact with the strings and nothing else. Since then, I don't have the clicking sound and I improved my tone and fluidity of picking. This is just a cheaper way of getting rid of that pick noise.

Micah

"but like everyone else I tend to get a pick slap on the wood"

Not everybody; why not learn, as Micah, & I have done, to pick ON THE STRINGS, instead of the wood? A lot cheaper than altering the instrument.

**Eugene** · Apr-02-2007, 9:43pm

Originally Posted by (sunburst @ April 02 2007, 09:18)

I never could figure out what that "Florida" was doing there anyway. I don't know anybody who uses those frets up there, and I don't see any contribution to the design of the F-5 from it...no good contribution anyway, IMO. (Yes, I know about Dave Apollon. I've even had someone request having one fret pulled so the mandolin would look like Dave Apollon's.)
Many builders build without the 29 fret board with the long extension, (30 frets in a few cases when Gibson seemed to want to "one up" themselves) so owning one of those mandos with a shorter extension is a solution to the problem. If theres no long extension anyway, you don't have to worry about scooping it or cutting it off.

Loar devised the F-5 as a "classical" instrument, and there is plenty of "classical" mandolin music to go up that high. ...and even before the Gibson Co. ever built such long fingerboards, characters like Calace and Embergher were doing so with the intent they be used.

That said, I get a little squeamish about altering a shop's work. I'm less squeamish about newer pieces, like yours, Gunback...but it still makes me a bit squeamish. If you don't intend to use those frets, I think you'd be as well served by buying a mandolin built without them.

Another alternative that not a lot of folks mention is simply replacing the fingerboard and maintaining the original to be re-replaced if a future owner ever wants to restore it to its original state. Replacing a fingerboard is relatively easily reversed, but axing the top end off the original fingerboard is not.

**evanreilly** · Apr-08-2007, 11:58am

Here is a good shot of a fingerboard extension scooped from the factory, not after-market.

**John Gardinsky** · Apr-08-2007, 2:45pm

Are you a player or a collector? If you bought it to play then scoop away. I did mine (thanks to Frank Fords website) and never looked back. It turned out very nice. Remember that people as a whole are larger now than they were 80 years ago, their fingers just don't fit between those tiny frets. The extension is a vestigial organ, make it evolve. Just my opinion, good luck either way. John

**MandoSquirrel** · Apr-08-2007, 3:14pm

Originally Posted by (evanreilly @ April 08 2007, 12:58)

Here is a good shot of a fingerboard extension scooped from the factory, not after-market.

Why build it with an extension, if you're going to build it as NONfunctional? Makes NO sense to me. Yeah , I know, that's how Bill's looked.

**Jim Hilburn** · Apr-08-2007, 5:38pm

One reason you might build a non-functional scooped extension is because the buyer requested it that way.

**sunburst** · Apr-08-2007, 5:52pm

Originally Posted by (MandoSquirrel @ April 08 2007, 16:14)

Why build it with an extension, if you're going to build it as NONfunctional?

Same reason we put points, scrolls, and other nonfunctional appendages all over them.
As Jim said, builders are giving the buyers what they want.

**MandoSquirrel** · Apr-08-2007, 6:44pm

Yeah, like I said, because of Bill. But I keep saying, if it's Not a Gibson, why should it look like one? Why not be original? That goes for Players, as well as builders.

**Bernie Daniel** · Apr-09-2007, 5:43am

Originally Posted by

MandoSquirrel: Yeah, like I said, because of Bill. But I keep saying, if it's Not a Gibson, why should it look like one? Why not be original? That goes for Players, as well as builders.

Originally Posted by

Sunburst: Same reason we put points, scrolls, and other nonfunctional appendages all over them.
As Jim said, builders are giving the buyers what they want.

Two GREAT points made back-to-back! #You guys are both exactly right in my opinion -- there is a lot of "copy cat" in this business and I am as guilty as anyone! #

**AlanN** · Apr-09-2007, 7:15am

Originally Posted by (MandoSquirrel @ April 08 2007, 16:14)

Why build it with an extension, if you're going to build it as NONfunctional? Makes NO sense to me. Yeah , I know, that's how Bill's looked.

Exactly my thoughts when I speced out my mandolin. Have never looked back.

**markishandsome** · Apr-09-2007, 8:49am

Bill's the reason I started playing mandolin, I don't think it's too silly to want a mandolin that looks like his. But if you're going for that, I say go whole hog with the full unscooped florida. Sometimes I poke at my little florida and think, man i wish this thing worked better, but at least it's how it was meant to be. Those faux frets on some remind me of the painted-on f-holes you see on some electric guitars.

**Jim Hilburn** · Apr-09-2007, 9:25am

On the first F I made as a custom order for someone who wasn't a personal friend I did my own style of fretboard end, the same you see on my A's. Turned out the guy was a classical player who wanted at least 24 frets and this one had 21. No sale. Since then everyone who orders from me gets asked what they want.
Now you can think of yourself as an original thinker because you bought a mandolin that bucks the trend but there's no reason to bash anyone else for their particular preferences or for that matter their ability to play without clicking.