Beginning jazz

[reely989]

Hey guys, I was just wondering, are there any good jazz lesson books that go from basics to advanced improv?(explaining everything in between of course) I mostle play bluegrass and newgrass, but I would love to understand the fundamentals of Jazz such as modes and advanced improv techniques. Thanks.

Caleb

[Pete Martin]

I recommend three things:

1) Mark Levine "Jazz Theory". Best theory book I've seen and I've read a LOT of theory books.

http://www.amazon.com/Jazz-Theory-Bo.../dp/1883217040


2) The Jerry Bergonzi books on improvising, I think there are 7 of them now. "The Jazz Line" and "Developing a Jazz Language" are good to start, but all are excellent.

http://www.jerrybergonzi.com/books.htm


3) "Connecting Chords With Linear Harmony" by Burt Ligon. I probably got more out of this as a look at how to solo than any other single source, excellent stuff!

http://aebersold.com/Merchan....=THEBOO

[groveland]

Mark Levine "Jazz Theory".

[Perry]

Yes Mark Levines's "Jazz Theory Book" would fit your request nicely. You need to know how to read music though (as with all jazz books)

The following series of book is nice in that it provides the lead sheet, backing tracks, written out solo and solo ideas all in one book., Make sure you get the C instrument version:

Approaching the Standards

Then of course there is Absersold's Volume One. But I a have to admit that Mark Levine's Jazz Therory book eclipses them all.

I'm gonna check out that Burt Ligon book.

[Don Stiernberg]

Does it need to be a book? Would a magazine be OK? If so, you may enjoy the jazz column in Mandolin Magazine. There's a link here at the Cafe for MM, back issues, etc..The column("On a Jazzy Note") attempts to cover the very things you're inquiring about, providing mando-specific charts, tabs, voicings, and so on. I hope you find it helpful as I work hard on writing it!

Another one is JAZZ IMPROV magazine. They have an entire section dedicated to picking apart tunes, finding new ways to practice harmonic material, rhythmic subdivisions, everything. Very helpful.

There's an exhaustive reference manual called SCALES and MODES for the MANDOLIN by TERRY LEWIS. I noticed it here at the Cafe and Terry was kind enough to share it with me. It's great--you can go to any specific type of scale/mode and get
fretboard diagram, tab, intervals included, and regular notation. That's hard to beat. Downloadable.

I concur with the suggestions listed above also, all excellent. I'm smiling now thinking of all this discussion of JAZZ MANDOLIN. There was a time when much less was available!

Right here on this board watch for posts by our moderator Ted Eschliman, and please visit his site jazzmando.com for yet another heap of useful tips, discussions, links, and more. Also posting here you'll find John McGann, Berklee professor and(more importantly) one fabulous all purpose mandolinist and fine musician. Perhaps he'll weigh in here soon about modes, etc. Another friend/colleague who writes insightful commentary here is Paul Glasse. If you can find someone who plays bebop and swing jazz on a mandolin better than Paul does, I want to hear about it!

My own approach is to think of scales and modes as the same thing, or different names for the same thing. For example, D Minor seventh calls for a certain group of tones. One might think of the C Major scale from D to D, or a D minor scale, or a dorian mode, but the notes in question still end up being d-e-f-g-a-b-c. The essential knowledge from my standpoint is of the harmonized scale and how chords usually function in tunes...

oooops I went on too long! That happens when you're into it I guess! Carry on cats and Best Wishes for this, THE YEAR OF GOOD NOTES!

[David Horovitz]

Yeah, what Don said!

Depending on the type of jazz you want to learn, I'd highly recommend checking out any and all of Don's jazz recordings. He really swings on the jazz standards and every tune is like a clinic in good tone, timing and phrasing. Then get a jazz (real) book and start learning the melody and chord changes to the tunes. You'll learn a lot just becoming familiar with a few jazz standards and how the chords and arpeggios lay out on the fretboard.

[mandocrucian]

What are your intentions - to play jazz, or to "jazz-up" your bluegrass/newgrass solos? The two are worlds apart.

If you are wanting to operate in the jazz mode, what's your CD collection like? You'll want to listen to a whole lot more than DGQ, Django, "Kind of Blue", "Giant Steps" and a few other standards.

You probably ought to have a minimum of a dozen CDs (75 min compilations are your best value as introdutions) or every time era and important substyle, starting with the early New Orleans (King Oliver, Jelly Roll Morton, Louis Armstrong, Bix..) then into the early Cotton Club Ellington ("Black And #Tan Fantasy") and Paul Whiteman. Then Fats Waller, Venuti, Goodman, Artie Shaw, Charlie Christian, Count Basie more Duke, Billie Holiday, Lester Young, Coleman Hawkins, into Bop (Parker, early Miles, Dizzy, Powell), and so on through the modal Miles, Sonny Rollins, Coltrane, Monk, Bill Evans, Art Pepper, Stan Getz, Gerry Mulligan/Chet Baker, Mingus, Ornette Coleman, Eric Dolphy, Wes Montgomery, Charles Lloyd, Herbie Mann, #.....into funk Miles, Chick Corea, Jarrett, Weather Report, fusion........ (and don't forget the bosa nova/samba and the Afro-Cuban branches of the jazz tree.)

You probably ought to have a minumum of 3 albums (or at least one "best of compilation") of every important sax, horn, and piano player. More for the giants.

If you don't program the sounds of the genre floating through your memory banks, you'll just play bluegrassy solos with more chromatics thrown in.

Any book/method will be more more effective and useful if it explaining something that your ears are somewhat familiar with already, rather than attempting to teach you to hear differently from scratch.

NH

[Dave Caulkins]

I will third (fourth? fifth?) Levine's Theory text... that is one heckuva book. I am also enjoying Baker's "Patterns for Jazz" for exercises, as I can't make myself sit down and work on the Aebersold exercise runs over and over and... (Hey, don't forget to get some sort of Real/Fake book either, to apply all that theory).

To me, the most frustrating part of jazz is actually finding cats to play it with, especially outside of a heavily settled area. I attended a community college for Jazz guitar (and I played Alto Sax in school bands), and found most of the students (and some of the jazz faculty) rarely played anything resembling jazz outside of school. The Aebersold play-a-longs are great in this regard, as it gives you experience with good players who aren't going to cut your chops down or not be available. Admittedly, they could make up some different parts after a couple of rehearsals, and Jamey counts the same way every time...

I came back to playing jazz by getting deeper into Western Swing recently (not to mention getting a new guitar, which lends itself to the music as well). Once the bug bit again - I was hooked. My country side has only benefitted from my excursions, though I suspect this time it's a bit more than a side road for me. I'm enjoying the challenge of utilizing what I know on guitar to the mando, though I get frustrated when I have to keep looking up chord voicings (yes, I know, use theory and make them... I get so lazy sometimes!)

Niles' suggestions are true, and my guitar professor (who did play jazz outside of school and was studying with Yusef Lateef at the time...) believed that listening was more important than just practicing. He felt that if you filled the listening glass with musical water, it couldn't help but overflow...

Dave

[Perry]

To me, the most frustrating part of jazz is actually finding cats to play it with, especially outside of a heavily settled area.

Yeah...the Aebersold Books and the previously mentioned "approaching the standards" (also Hal Leonard has a play-a-along jazz series out now) help but nothing takes the place of some live comprades....

[mythicfish]

I'm prepared to take a lot of flack.
Beginning jazz? Before you open up" book-one " I suggest that you listen to an hour of Louis Armstrong every day for (at least ) a month. At one time it was" fashionable" to denigrate the contributuions of this giant, but -to paraphrase Dizzy Gillespie - "We (jazz musicians) should all get down on our knees and thank Louis Armstrong for our livelyhood"
After that ... listen to as much of the rest of 20th century as you can and don't neglect the music of other continents. If you're lucky, you might even find a teacher. As you listen and play, dont forget to breath. That's all I can tell you.

Curt

[reely989]

I thank you guys for the advice and encouragement. I really would like to be able to play actual jazz music to some extent, as a completely seperate pursuit from my bluegrass roots. Now, obviously I have gathered that my cd collection needs updating. Who are some of the giants and new players that are must listens in the jazz genre?

Thanks,
Caleb

[reely989]

Thanks for the heads up on the lesson on modes at this website, it really showed me some stuff and I just read through it once. I think im gonna sit down tomorrow and really go through and figure them out.

[Ted Eschliman]

Some great ideas already registered here. Listening to great jazz mandolinists is crucial, and of course since the instrument is in a relative infancy, it's important to listen to other jazz great instrumentalists as well. This generation of mandolinists is still defining what the instrument can do in this fertile genre. Don Stiernberg and I talk of our dream of our children talking about mandolin in jazz in the same breath as sax and trumpet. We have a long way to go, of course.

Listening and doing, and the best kick once armed with a good set of stock ii V7 I chords is to play along with some of the Aebersold jazz books. Speaking of, the ii V7 I book is terrific, but you might want to back up and start with something more basic, the How to Play Jazz and Improvise is a good start, too.

[AlanN]

Don Stiernberg had a jazz column in the old MWN. He discussed various artists, techniques and transcribed many jazz lines, from a detailed Cherokee to a few sample solos to Out of Nowhere to some Basie heads. He also writes the jazz column for the current Mandolin Magazine and has written out many excellent solos to typical jazz arrangements. A goldmine of ideas and solos. Try to get these, because he of course writes this stuff with the 'lil 'ol manalin in mind!

David Grisman masterfully noted out the tune Joy Spring in an old Frets ariticle (spanning two issues, A part and B part). It is a good workout for the whole ii-V-Imaj7 thing across key tonalities. Ping me if you'd like a copy (I'm sure Dawg would not mind).

[mandocrucian]

My top 4 fave sax players: Rollins, Coltrane, Pepper, Hodges (order fluctuates!)

Sonny Rollins is a fave; I've got a bunch of his earlier (50'-60's) stuff. Saxaphone Colossus, Way Out West, Sonny Rollins (on Blue Note)... It's hard to give exact (and current) titles, because a lot of what I have were Prestige/Impulse/Riverside "two-fer" repackagings which only existed in the LP format.

Art Pepper is another one of my favorite sax players. I particularly liked No Limit and The Trip.

Johnny Hodges was great - another of my faves. Hard to give a current title for the same reasons as with Rollins.

Frankly, if you don't have much jazz in your collection, the easiest and most economical way of getting an introduction to most of the important players and trends is to buy a bunch of the "Ken Burns Jazz" CD (tie-in) compilations for individual players: Armstrong, Bechet, Monk, Parker, Coltrane, Count Basie, Brubeck, Rollins, Sarah Vaughan, Billie Holiday, Ellington, Ornette Coleman, Art Blakey-Max Roach, Gillespie, Lester Young, Miles Davis, Ella Fitzgerald, Mingus etc. #You can find these floating around used on Amazon/half.com at really low prices: $2-4 each. Shipping will probably cost as much as the CDs, but you can save on postage by ordering several discs from the same seller. #(Check your local library's CD collection and check some out. They probably have some of those. You can usually find the whole Ken Burns Jazz TV series on VHS or DVD there too. The first 5 or 6 episodes were really good. The latter ones were OK but reflected his biases/agenda.)

I'm a fan of (legit, not el-quickie super-budget no-name label truckstop rack stuff) compilations, especially as introductory listening. First they tend to fill up the disc (70 minutes). Second, they will (usually) provide you with some/many of the essential milestone tunes and an overview of the player's career. So you usually get primo examples of the musician.

I'd suggest working up the historical time-line from the 20's into swing, into bop, cool and so on. You'll get a better feel for how the music evolved, and will prepare your ears for the increased complexities of the next era(s).

Niles H

<span style='color:red'>PS: Don't expect to immediately LIKE everything you hear the first time. You have to give it a chance with repeated listening. especially if it's a new genre(s) for you. You should just defer to the "experts" and suspend judgement. Why would they not steer you towards the good stuff? Eventually, your favorites will start to emerge, just as they did with any genre that you've listened to extensively. #(Remember the day when you thought that "all bluegrass (or Irish) sounds the same!") ?

Some of the records which became long term favorites were often ones that did not grab me at first.</span>

[swinginmandolins]

This site A Jazz Improvisation Primer has alot of information including a time line as Niles suggested as well as a discography.

[ald]

Peter, when you have transcribed a tune, what items do you look out for (patterns, groups of notes, chord changes, deviations from the normal scale....), when deciphering the piece? Do you have any tips on how to systematise your musical discoveries?

[reely989]

thanks again for the advice guys. I really appreciate all the suggestions.

[jmcgann]

mythicfish- you rule! Great post!!!

Don- Thanks for your kind words. You have set the bar really high for all who want to play jazz mandolin!

Caleb- My suggestion is to avoid getting overwhelmed. All the listening suggestions here are wonderful, but they will take a long time to absorb. Find things you like, and listen to them LOTS. All great soloists have cut their teeth by learning other's solos- and the best way to do that is by ear. It is a great idea to sing along with solos you love before looking for the notes on your "horn". Just pick one at a time, and really get to know it. Curt's Louis Armstrong suggestion is great; you might try something from the Hot Fives/ Hot Sevens era, use a slowdowner if you need to...Louis really wrote the book. Think "music" and not just "mandolin". Listen for the great rhythmic phrasing, use of rests and dynamics that happen more in this kind of music than in most traditional mandolin music.

Scales/modes are important, but to me, even more important are chord tones, as they are the strongest/safest melody notes. When you work on your first jazz blues progression, work on arpeggiating the chord tones up to the 9th (later you can go up to the 11 or #11 and 13)- that way, you ARE playing a scale, but every other note winds up being in the 2nd octave. This will help you hear lines that aren't in seconds (scale note to scale note). Practicing scales just as a row of notes up and down usually leads to less than interesting intervallic ideas. Practice patterns in 3rds, 4ths, and other intervals, and check out how chromatic "neigbor tones" are used, mostly around chord tones, to creat the characteristic "zigzag" lines found especially in bebop type lines.

Peter Hackman's idea of practice before theory is good, in that it helps to hear the lines (as played by master players) before worrying about what they are analytically- although both are essential IMHO.To me, this means getting these melodic and rhythmic ideas 'in your head' by listening and singing along.

Of course, it's a blast to work on solos by jazz mando players too- many seem to fit the instrument nicely so be sure to check out Jethro and Don S. and Paul G. among others!

[Pete Martin]

Clifford Brown, CLIFFORD BROWN, CLIFFORD BROWN!!! Anything, everything by him. If I can remember how to access my web site, I'll post some of my transcriptions off Clifford.

Did I mention Clifford Brown??

[Joel Glassman]

I'm a little late to this discusion but
here are some more ideas:
Collect as much Count Basie music from
1938-48 as you can, and memorize the sax
solos. You'll hear a lot of Lester Young
who was a master at simple deep playing.
He also shows a way to play without using
endless strings of eighth notes. Basie's
music tended to be the most common forms
of swing progressions especially blues.
The other thing I'd recommend is to get
a lead sheet for "All of Me".
Learn the melody, and some fills around those notes.
Learn many different ways of playing the chords.
Memorize the chord progression.
Work on guide tones: move through the tune by only
playing the 3rd or the 7th of each chord. Approach
the 3rd/7ths by half steps. Find the many ways you
can move through a chord progression. When the chord
changes from C to E7 and you move to a G# on the E chord
etc. you are "playing the changes". Following through on
all the possibilities will keep you busy for a year.
Playing a simple melodic lick through the chord changes
and varying the melody is good for another few years :^)

[ald]

On the question of finding a system for analysing tunes that have been transcribed, John McGann very kindly offered this tip:

I always think in terms of the chord of the moment, so a melodic line
would have 12 possible numbers- a straight arpeggio would be 1 3 5 of the
moment, b9, 9 (or 2), b3 (#9) etc. depending on the harmonic context. I
think this is crucial, as it allows you to then transpose the idea to all
keys. It's a lot of work, but allows you to get the maximum use from the
transcribed idea.
That's the system used at Berklee, and also by Coltrane transcriber Andrew
White (he calls it the Concientious Number System).

This is a way of assigning numbers to scale notes. Let's say it's a C chord, the notes C D E F G A B are 1 2 3 4 5 6 7.
C#= b2 or b9 depending on the octave
Eb= b3 or #9
F#/Gb= #4/b5
G#/Ab= #5/b6
Bb=b7
D can also be 9, F 11, F# #11, A 13 (this is by adding 7 to the original number).

This way we can analyze what's happening against any chord- you call the root of the new chord the new "1" and take it from there.

[groveland]

That's the system used at Berklee

Is there any other system? That's the only one I have ever seen.

[jmcgann]

There's all kinds of systems, including Shenkerian analysis (performed by Michael Schenker of UFO); Figured Bass (The bassist tries to figure it out for you), etc.

[bush-man]

Just want to thank everyone who's posted in this topic. There's a wealth of informational resources and tips given by you all, and I for one truely appreciate it. I've been a jazz fan most of my life and only wish that listening equated to playing. Thanks again for all the input from you jazzers!

russell [listening to bill evans trio live from the village vanguard 1961 now]