Weissenborn--anyone know them?

**Tim F Thornton** · Feb-27-2007, 2:02am

I'm sorry to post something not related to mandolin, but I've scoured the web and there is little information to be found. I figured a cafe vintage mando expert here might have some information or know someone who can help me...

Does anyone know anything about Weissenborn Hawaiian style guitars made in L.A. in the 20s and 30s? The only info I've found is a brief overview on Wikipedia, an article from Acoustic Guitar magazine reprinted in several locales, and a few more details on www.weissenborn.es.

I have what I think is a style 2 original Weissenborn in good (but not excellent) condition. I'm trying to figure out what it's worth for insurance purposes.

Thanks all, for any help in advance, and if you have to kill this post, Scott, I understand.

**Jason Kessler** · Feb-27-2007, 7:47am

Go to ResoNation.com. Loads of info there.

**clem** · Feb-27-2007, 9:39am

I know them well. Have owned 2 Style 1s and a Style 4 (along with Hilo and kona over the years). The market for them is a bit erratic, but for insurance purposes a good, clean Style 2 is easy $3,000-4,000, maybe more.

Check with Intermountain Guitars (www.guitarandbanjo.com)--they have a good handle on the market (travel to lots of shows, always have Ws. I bought one from them).
Clem

**Jim Garber** · Feb-27-2007, 11:37am

Weissenborn did make mandolins (as well as standard guitars and ukes.

This is a nice all-koa one on Frank Ford's frets.com site. I love the Mickey Mouse soundhole -- prob predates Disney but from the same part of the country.

Jim

**Tim F Thornton** · Feb-27-2007, 11:55am

That is a beautiful instrument. Looks like a flat top and back? I wonder how it sounds. Thanks for redeeming my post, Jim, and thanks for the information, folks!

**Jim Garber** · Feb-27-2007, 1:40pm

It looks like they copied the Vega cylinderback silhouette.

Jim

**R. Kane** · Feb-27-2007, 1:42pm

You might also visit the forum at guitarseminars.com, as there are many Weissenborn players there.

**delsbrother** · Feb-27-2007, 3:16pm

I would also suggest the Steel Guitar Forum, as Weissenborn expert Ben Elder frequently posts there.

Weissenborn figures greatly in my research on luthier Chris Knutsen as both were in LA at the same time (at the height of the Hawaiian music boom). There are several theories about who influenced whom, etc. Check out the Tom Noe/Dan Most book on Knutsen, as it has lots of info and pictures of Weissenborns (and Konas, etc.).

Here's a pic I found in a musty old LA trade journal showing Ol' Hermann in his shop. I was really happy to find it, as not many people (after 1929, I suppose) had seen it before! Check out the tenors and plectrums (?) in the rack on the right.

**Richard Russell** · Feb-27-2007, 4:33pm

Nice to see this post! I have a Weissenborn that my Grandfather owned for years. Unfortunately, it wasn't stored properly and the tension of the strings pulled and warped the top of the instrument. I was told by a reputable shop that if it were repaired it would bring over $3000. I would sell it to someone if they wanted to do the repair, or maybe someday I will have the extra resources to have it repaired.

**delsbrother** · Feb-27-2007, 5:06pm

Let me also say that many guitars made by others get misidentified as "Weissenborns" (like Knutsens). People unfamiliar with these things call anything with that pointed shape a "Weissenborn." Look inside for the shield brand (I love this trademark, BTW):

If you're not sure who made your guitar, check with any of the sources listed in this thread (you could PM me also, if you want - though I'm not as good as Ben Elder at Weissenspotting).

As for pricing, compared to mandolins I'd guess these are way underpriced. I like to think that at the same time some of these were made, Lloyd Loar was tinkering in his shop... A lot of Hawaiian guitars that have survived to this day are falling apart after years of misuse and heavy strings. I've seen a lot of Weissenborns priced in the $3-4K range (and higher), but I wonder if they're actually selling at that much... Especially when you can get VERY NICE modern reproductions without structural issues for that kind of money.

**Richard Russell** · Feb-27-2007, 9:23pm

That's it, the Weissenborn trademark! Thanks for posting the image delsbrother. These guitars are amazing builds, in my opinion. I love the light weight design and all that hollow space inside the neck to create sound. I must admit I've not heard one played live. I have a recording of Jerry Douglas playing one and it's impressive (he makes EVERYTHING sound impressive). It must be a marvelous sound!

**Jim Garber** · Feb-28-2007, 7:21am

Originally Posted by (delsbrother @ Feb. 27 2007, 16:16)

Check out the tenors and plectrums (?) in the rack on the right.

Looks like a few ukes as well. I have a feeling that the mandolins were quite rare.

My first experience seeing and hearing a Weissenborn was hearing David Lindley play one many years ago.

Jim

**delsbrother** · Jan-05-2009, 5:14pm

I've seen been told by others more Weissenknowledgeable that the instruments in the rack on the right are are ukes, tenors, and Spanish guitars (of course, what was I thinking?). I think some of the Hawaiians in the other rack are sunbursted, but others are skeptical - what I'm seeing as a change in tone might just be shop dust! IIRC Jerry Douglas has played a sunburst Kona in the past...

Somewhere in my digital image files I have a screen cap of a non-mickey-mouse-hole Weiss mando, but can't seem to find it at the mo.

**jeff mercer** · Jan-07-2009, 10:23pm

Delsbrother, if you can dig up the image of the Weissenborn mandolin you have saved, I personally would LOVE to see it !
The one on Frank Fords' site remains the only one I've ever seen.

Weissenborn made Hawaiian, Spanish, Tenor and Plectrum guitars, Mandolins ( ridiculously rare ) & ukuleles ( again, extremely rare ).

I have a Style 3 uke, the top of the line, with the Top, back, fingerboard, headstock and soundhole all "rope-bound"..it's a little work of art, and the centerpiece of my pretty extensive vintage uke collection

Hope you can find that photo, mate, I'm sure we'd all love to see it !

P.S...The guitars on the rack on the left-hand side of the Weissenborn factory photo are the solid-neck "Kona" Hawaiian guitars that were supplied to teacher C.S DeLano, & dates the shot to around 1923/24, or at least no earlier than that.

**delsbrother** · Jan-07-2009, 11:28pm

If memory serves, it was a simple flattop similar to a Martin AK. Not terribly remarkable other than who made it.

I know about Delano and Konas - have you ever seen a 'burst one, though?

**jeff mercer** · Jan-10-2009, 2:07am

Delsbrother..Nope, never seen a sunburst W/Born or Kona, but his operation was small enough that one of a kind models surface quite regularly. Just recently saw a photo of Ben Harper holding a Hawaiian with a slotted headstock, extremely unusual !

When the Weissenborn Co. Ltd was incorporated in 1923, the Hawaiian models- his main stock in trade- were standardized fairly quickly, as were the Spanish, Tenor & Plectrum guitars. It seems his Ukuleles and Mandolins were a constant "work in progress"..i.e the Ukes for instance sometimes had an integral bridge saddle, other times a simple block of notched koa, sometimes a concave headstock profile, sometimes a "crown" shape, and the placement of the soundhole varied quite a lot, too.

I'd still love to see your image of the other W/born mandolin, however plain it is

!

**Wyn** · Jan-10-2009, 3:40pm

Here are 3 others.....

**jeff mercer** · Jan-10-2009, 6:16pm

That's amazing, Wyn, thanks so much for sharing !

I guess you can see what I mean about his Mandolins being pretty "free-form" in comparison to his (production era) Hawaiians, Tenors etc.
Interesting that the one in the middle has a Patent-Applied for stamp on the headstock..wonder what feature of the instrument he was Patenting ?

With it's rope-bound body, neck & headstock & the particular arrangement of fingerboard dots ( doubled at the 7th & 12th fret- all features shared by my Style 3 ukulele), I have a feeling that the mando in the last image was probably from the production era (1923 to 1937), and the others posssibly experiments and/or one-offs.

Interesting stuff..thanks again, Wyn

!

**delsbrother** · Jan-11-2009, 1:24am

Wow, hadn't seen that two-point (vega-ish?) one before. I think the last one was the one I was thinking of. Thanks!

**Wyn** · Jan-11-2009, 8:50am

Here are more pix of mandos 1 & 3 from above.

I believe the sunburst Kona Jerry D has played is not original. If I recall correctly, it was made by one of the current or previous divisions of Gibson within the last 15 years.

**Dave Greenspoon** · Jan-25-2009, 8:31am

There was a recent Fretboard Journal article about Weissenborn that you will likely find helpful.

**Wyn** · Mar-07-2009, 9:15am

Bump for Jeff M.......

**jeff mercer** · Mar-07-2009, 2:59pm

Many thanks, Wyn.

I had intended to contact Weissenborn historian Ben Elder ( who has been really helpful in the past ) to see if he had any additional info on W/born mandos, but could'nt find the thread

!

If I hear back, I'll post any findings..

Thanks again.