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Thread: How do you keep ca glue bottles unplugged?

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    Anyone have a good way to those 2 ounce CA glue bottles from gluing themselves shut? I haven't had much luck trying to stick a pin down the hole. A 1/16" drill bit does the trick, but it's pretty hard on the drill bit. Maybe I need a little teflon nail or something. By the way, if you haven't tried those micro tip extensions for the glue bottles, you should. They are small enough to actually place glue inside a fret slot, and at 15 cents each, they are worth it, as it saves a lot of aggravation. http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXL490&P=7

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    Café habitué Paul Hostetter's Avatar
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    I use thin and medium, and for probably about 35 years now I have never (never) put a cap on them. I open them and simply leave them open. The cap encourages capillary action (no pun intended) to draw the stuff up and into tight areas under the cap. So I skip the cap. I get every drop, and during that entire time have to peel a bit off the tip to reopen it maybe two or three times.

    I also stick with 1 ounce bottles, because I don't go through it that fast (a bottle of each about every 6-8 months).

    I do like the microtips for the thin stuff.

    If you use accelerator, don't ever use it near the bottles. A tiny bit of stray vapor will cause lots of trouble.
    .
    ph

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    While I do like the stuff I use very little of it so I just buy the small tubes. If the cap glues itself on, or the hole plugs too hard then it's into the can and on to the next. For most things I find hide and white glue more than sufficient.

    Greg
    An artist has to deal with his own inner demons.
    A craftsman has to deal with his clients.

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    Here's the trick for the microtips: soak the clogged ones in acetone.

    I don't use them, though; I much prefer capillary tubing or micropipettes. The tubing gets snipped shorter when it clogs...

    Never try to clear a clog from the tip end; that just makes it clog further down the neck of the bottle.

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    Registered User MikeB's Avatar
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    I used to use a LOT of CA glues. I never figured out, like Paul did, that you could just leave the bottle open, but in my experience, the stuff seemed to have a limited shelf-life. Not in the bottle so much as when applied. After a certain period, it just didn't seem to be very strong when set up. I used it in making jewelry. Anyway, I learned to stick with small bottles and buy new ones often. I usually transferred the amounts I used to the surface to be glued with some kind of pointed tool, like a hat pin, FWOW.
    --Mike Buesseler

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    I'd never kept my bottles uncapped, but sounds like a good idea... Well, if you keep them in a medicine bottle or something else hermetic, otherwise you're just going to be breathing trace amounts for all your days, and that can't be too good...

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    Registered User MikeB's Avatar
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    (Hey, cool! Look at my signature...the guy who built my OM just posted below me. I'm surrounded!)

    Yes, Brian, cover those glue bottles. You have a lot of days left to breath and too many good brain cells to mess up!
    --Mike Buesseler

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    "Yes, Brian, cover those glue bottles. You have a lot of days left to breath and too many good brain cells to mess up!"

    And don't paint your house, or buy food from a supermarket, and always carry a radon detector.

    Curt

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    I also use a lot of CA. Probably 2 oz. plastic bottles (I didn't look). I tap mine down on the workbench after using them to get the stuff out of the spout. They still plug up. My solution: little drill bit. But after a time, the thin stuff begins to have the properties of the medium stuff. How does leaving it open eliminate that? Or does it?

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    This stuff must be kept closed to prevent air from attacking the material. It must should bestored in refrigerators (at 35-46F). Once the container develops a white film on the outside of the bottle then likely it is close to unusable. In normal production we purchase the 10 or 20 gram squeeze tubes. Loctite also has a Super Glue Pen for pin point application.

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    I'll put in a couple of words here. When I used to work the production lines building mandolins for one of the US factories, CA glue was a serious issue. About every three months one of the luthiers would go into a near death state and lose a week or two of work. Ineveitably it was at one of the stations that used CA glue almost constantly. All the doctors they visited told them that stuff was horrible for your health. I know of an incident in Charles Fox's factory where they were using thick CA glue as pore filler on guitars. One of the workers collapsed in complete respiratory distress. He almost didn't make it to the hospital. Regular exposure to CA glue has been proven to develop long term sensitivities that can manifest in a single episode.
    While everyone agrees that CA glue is convenient, it is not a material that I would want to base my instruments and reputation on. You are not building for the future with it. It doesn't make for easy repairs, it does have issues with creep, and after about 20 years it starts to break down and oxidize to a chalky brittle mess.I wouldn't use it on a historic instrument, so why would I use it on one of my new models.
    I'll stick with hide glue.

    james condino
    www.condino.com

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    Interesting story, James. I guess CYANO-acrylate is related in some way to Cyanide. Thanks to everyone for the suggestions. Frank Ford recommends using thin CA to reseat fretboard chips during a refretting, followed by a touch of accelerator. That certainly works well, apart from the time it takes to sand the mess off the fretboard. He also recommends thin CA dripped into the fret slot after the fret has been seated. I didn't realize that it loses strength in twenty years or becomes chalky. Of course, it's not the only glue and can do that. Still, worth keeping in mind.




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    Café habitué Paul Hostetter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by
    This stuff must be kept closed to prevent air from attacking the material.
    I have been using CA pretty much nonstop since 1964. I certainly don't use it at industrial levels (James's stories are sobering), and I treat it as a toxic chemical absolutely, but my own experience tells me you're repeating someone's package directions, not paying attention to experience and results. Air doesn't "attack" it, though moisture can be an issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by
    It must should be stored in refrigerators (at 35-46F).
    I don't know about "must" but it "should" be stored cold until the bottle is opened. You absolutely cannot return it to a refrigerator once it's been opened or you'll ruin it. The mfr's spec sheets all tell you that. I keep it in the freezer (below 32F) until I'm ready to use it. Once I slit the tip, I leave it wide open. 43 years of experience in Michigan, Colorado and coastal California tell me this is a viable and economical way to get the most out of a bottle of the stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by
    Once the container develops a white film on the outside of the bottle then likely it is close to unusable.
    In all my years of using it, I only saw that happen on the little dinky tubes of Aron Alpha I used back in the 60's when I was doing commercial jewelry.
    .
    ph

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  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by
    You are not building for the future with it.
    I don't think anyone's gluing backs on with it. From what I've understood, it (or epoxy) is the only way to keep inlays in and stable for the life of the instrument. Maybe I'm wrong, in fact I'd be glad if I was, I don't like the stuff much.

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    Three (former?) jewelers in one thread?

    Where does the cabal meet?

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    Café habitué Paul Hostetter's Avatar
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    To me there's often little difference in approach and process. A number of my violin and bowmaking pals also trained in goldsmithing and so on.
    .
    ph

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    Seems to me that the sort of folks who build musical instruments are also the type who will delve into all different sorts of creativity and expirementation, and think nothing of trying anything different if it strikes their fancy at any given time.

    Ron



    My wife says I don't pay enough attention to what she says....
    (Or something like that...)

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    Café habitué Paul Hostetter's Avatar
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    I think nothing of thinking about trying different things, but I'm also trying to make a living, which means a lot of allegedly brilliant ideas remain in my head until someone comes along to bankroll them. Alas, most instrument-buying clients want something familiar and normal.
    .
    ph

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    Quote Originally Posted by
    I didn't realize that it loses strength in twenty years or becomes chalky
    Well, that hasn't been my experience, so far at least. I did recently see the first seriously damaged fingerboard on which I used CA for filling, chip repair, etc. That job was done in 1976, and there is absolutely no discernible change whatever.

    Cheers,

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    Café habitué Paul Hostetter's Avatar
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    Nor my experience. One little anecdote (amidst 40-some years of experience with the stuff): I repaired a long top crack in a brand-new cedar-topped guitar with CA in 1978. It has been strung with mediums ever since, has been around the world, from Alaska to Death Valley, all over Europe in sweltering summers. I was playing it last night. Going on 30 years, it's doing just fine. I'm a bit amazed by that, but there it is.

    I do feel fairly certain that accelerator is an issue for CA's material integrity and longevity. I don't even use it near my bottles, if I use it at all.
    .
    ph

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  21. #21
    Got Buckstrips? Jerry Byers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by (Paul Hostetter @ Feb. 23 2007, 16:07)
    I do feel fairly certain that accelerator is an issue for CA's material integrity and longevity.
    How so?
    2006 Kimble F #110 "Ruby"

    Buckstrips™ - Strings Without the Ring

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    Café habitué Paul Hostetter's Avatar
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    Spray some and watch it morph instantly into mini-styrofoam, that's a clue. And the spec sheets all tell you the bond is compromised by using accelerator. I believe them.
    .
    ph

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    Got Buckstrips? Jerry Byers's Avatar
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    That's strange, I just used some last night with accelerator, and it turned into a solid clear block.
    2006 Kimble F #110 "Ruby"

    Buckstrips™ - Strings Without the Ring

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    I think the styrofoam issue has much to do with the viscosity of the CA in question. The really liquid stuff, the red label in my stuff, will do that. Foam up, turn whitish, and I wonder what's going on under the surface. Jerry, if I use accelerator on the orange label stuff, medium density stuff, that doesn't happen. It becomes a clear block. But it does harden the outside and under that little skin on the outside, it's still soft underneath. That should cure more normally? It does anchor things in a hurry. I noticed Hans using the same orange label glue on his series of shots about doing the rosette. I didn't see him mention accelerator. I've used CA with ebony sanding dust for fill around inlays in the headstock. It works great. But do not hit it with accelerator. You will have a mess on your hands. Personal experience.

  25. #25
    Got Buckstrips? Jerry Byers's Avatar
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    Okay, that makes more sense. I was using the slow cure, medium viscosity stuff.



    2006 Kimble F #110 "Ruby"

    Buckstrips™ - Strings Without the Ring

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