Gibson tailpiece swap

[Bob Denton]

I am replacing a cracked '93 tailpiece with a new replacement. The screw holes line up but there is a much bigger gap between the bootom of the tailpiece and the top of the mandolin (F5)

I'll probably have to plug the screw holes and redrill. Should the tailpiece actaully touch the binding? Any help much appreciated.

Cya!

[Paul Hostetter]

There's nothing to be gained (and I suspect something to be lost) by having it sit above the binding. It is, after all, just sheet metal, where the fold is a weak spot by dint of being a fold, and there's a great deal of tension right there. Having the binding right at the fold as reinforcement is a good idea.

[Gail Hester]

I usually set up my tailpieces at about 1/16" (stir stick)above the binding. That seems to look right and leave a little air under the bend so that it doesn't cut into the binding. If they are up much more than that they don't look right (to me) and I would be concerned about the leverage issue that Paul pointed out.

[Antlurz]

Also, you should look very closely at the bend angle of the piece and how it relates to pointing at the bridge saddle. If the angle points up too much and you set it too close, the strings will pull it down and put it in a bind if it runs into the binding or soundboard.

Ron

[Bob Denton]

Thanks! I plugged he holes ad reseated 1/16 above the binding. Does anyone think that the lower angle and possibly higher pressure on the bridge would impact the sound as it does on a banjo?

Thanks

[mandroid]

Seems like string tension would just negate the effort of bending the sheet metal downward.
deluxe bill james TP is CNC machined to allow /require [specified] straight line to the bridge.
heavy investment cast tailpiece is another story..

{that would transfer the string tension load, at the end of a Lever, (whose fulcrum would be above the end of the mando/tp) [logically] to the mounting screws.}

[Paul Hostetter]

string tension would just negate the effort of bending the sheet metal downward

Exactly. Eight strings are going to ensure that the collective tension goes in a straight line from the obvious fulcrum at the edge of the top directly to the bridge, and take everything associated with it right along with it. The hinge on the James tailpiece is a wise acknowledgment of that.

[Bob Denton]

I wasn't referring to bending the tail piece but dropping it 1/8th closer to the binding makes a more acute angle and should increase the pressure on the bridge? That should have some impact?

Thanks

[Paul Hostetter]

Imperceptible, I should think.

Again, the compelling reason for keeping it as low as possible is to help avoid structural failure of the metal at that crease. There's nothing to be gained anyway by having it higher. Even a sixteenth seems unnecessary to me. Gibsons are traditionally right down on the binding, and there's a gutter just inside that, so nothing touches.

Where did your original crack? Why did it happen?

[Gail Hester]

I've never seen a Gibson tailpiece that was right down on the binding but maybe we're using different terminology. Here's a Gibson Master Model that represents what I've seen and assume is correct.

[Paul Hostetter]

I have company coming for dinner and have to cook now, but I have four or five Gibsons around here (all pre-war) that are nothing like this. I'll try and shoot some photos when I can.

[Gail Hester]

Here are a couple more I have around. I just sent a couple out so I don't have a teens example. This one is a 1922 Gibson, a little closer but still noticable air.

[Gail Hester]

Here's a 1924 Gibson.

[claraboww]

Ok, i have no idea what this is all about, however i am trying to find Robert Denton of Santa Cruz that knew the Gunnison's? If you are this person would you please contact me at claraboww@msn.com. As Marty is looking for you.
Thanks Jackie

[Big Joe]

At the Big G we did mount them with "air" below the tailpiece so it would not sit on the top and possibly vibrate from the top or cause increased string tension. Since these were ALL installed by hand they may be a bit different from instrument to instrument but they were not to touch the top. At least that was the plan.

Bob... the increased pressure is pretty minimal, though maybe able to be felt in the fingers. There is not likely to be enough difference to matter much to the tone of the instrument. That being said, you can alter the tone or volume a bit by altering the angle of the tailpiece which accomplishes the same thing.

I personally love the James tailpiece. That is what I have on my mandolin and it is certainly easy to use and extremely high quality. I cannot imagine it breaking in a couple lifetimes of playing.

[Bernie Daniel]

Just for the record. I have 6 Gibson mandolins at hand right now -- are 5 F-styles. The gap between the bottom edge of tailpiece and the top ranges from a high of ~3/32 inch on my modern Sam Bush model to a low of ~1/16 inch on my vintage F-4. This is in line with Big Joe's comment above.

[Bill Snyder]

This thread is over 3 1/2 years old and the OP has not logged in since August 2008.

[bennyb]

I knew that Bill, because I too have the special software that allows me to see the dates of posts. But I found it interesting and went off to see where I had put my tailpieces - looks like I went with the stir stick. I probably read this the first time through.

benny

[Paul Hostetter]

This thread was from three years ago, and Gail answered it. I know Bob Denton and have put "Clara Bow" in touch with him. You can go back in your dens now.

[Big Joe]

I did not read the post date either. Bob is also a good friend and I was surprised he did not just call. Oh well.... old age and stupidity are getting me through .