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Thread: Sharpening systems

  1. #1
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    I have a ton of sharpening to do. I can sharpen with a stone, but have a lot to do.

    I'd love a tormek, but cant afford it.

    I am looking at the following:

    Harbor Freight


    Grizzly


    Delta

    woodcraft

    I have gauges, chisels, andplanes to sharpen mostly (oh and those lathe tools too)

    I'd appreciate any input you have.

    --ad




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    Try this Scarysharp Cheap. Simple. Effective.

    Unless you are using laminated blades like the japanese tools I would reccomend any of the grinders that will leave a hollow on the bevel side. The flat stones do a great job, but when it gets to honing your edge you will appreciate the hollow space the round stones leave.

    Greg



    An artist has to deal with his own inner demons.
    A craftsman has to deal with his clients.

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    Several times, I've almost bought one of those Harbor Freight grinders. Even if I eventually do, I'd still final finish with a method I've been using for many years that sort of resembles what is nowdays called "scareysharp" like Greg mentioned above. Hip Ol' dudes been using wet or dry fine grades of automotive sandpaper on a flat surface for sharpening things since back when the stuff was invented.

    BTW... if you opt to use paper abrasives to finish hone, a lot of times you'll be admonished to get a big piece of glass to use for a base. I've found that is not necessary if you have a good smooth piece of Formica topped counter/table or a sink cutout if the Formica is one of their smooth surfaced ones. That is entirely flat enough to do anything in the way of surfacing you will encounter in the real world if it is in good condition.

    Ron



    My wife says I don't pay enough attention to what she says....
    (Or something like that...)

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    Registered User buddyellis's Avatar
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    I bought a large 12"x12" marble tile from Lowes for this sort of thing. spritz some water on there, stick the paper to it, and spritz water on the top and sharpen away. I've often thought about getting a grinder (mainly for the hollow groundedness) but this method works well and is easily available from either walmart or your local auto supply shop.

    The grizzly seems to get better reviews, and the delta appears pretty cheaply made. If I were to buy one of those it would probably be the griz.




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    Just to put a fine point on it (sorry about the pun), this thread is really about grinding and not about sharpening. They are distinct in my mind. Sharpening is a habit and grinding is a task. You really don't need to grind all that often if you maintain your edge. My grinder comes out maybe twice a year, usually after a bit of cursing about how stupid I was to use one of my good chisels on a knotty piece of wood or for dropping one off my bench. They are also useful for setting up a new blade.

    Have you considered taking your tools to a sharpening shop and allowing them to give you an initial set up? You might be surprised as to how cheap it really is. Even with my set up, I have been known to take a particularly badly chipped blade into the shop for repair instead of losing all that time when I could be carving wood instead of grinding metal.

    Greg
    An artist has to deal with his own inner demons.
    A craftsman has to deal with his clients.

  6. #6
    Registered User PaulD's Avatar
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    Greg makes a good point that ties into your list of tools. I rarely regrind a chisel or plane iron... I mostly just touch them up on a stone or my "Scary Sharp" glass plate & sandpaper. For lathe tools (non mando content unless you're incorporating turnings into your instrument) I have a slow speed, 2 wheel grinder at hand with a fine grit aluminum oxide wheel. I lightly and frequently touch them up if I'm turning hard or abrasive woods... lathe tools don't need to be honed to a fine edge like chisels & plane irons. I'd love something like a Tormek but have never been able to justify the price so I've always gotten by with a conventional grinder and my stones/scary sharp setup.

    Of course this is one of those subjects that if you ask a dozen woodworkers you'll get 2 dozen answers... and most of them will be "right."

    pd
    "... beauty is not found in the excessive but what is lean and spare and subtle" - Terry Tempest Williams

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    Paul, I finally found a used Tormek, with most of the hand tool attachments. It has sped up my sharpening enough to justify the used price at least! Grinding goes much faster (and safer as far as 'burning' the tool), and sharpening does too because of the accurate tool shape I'm starting with.

    Adam, I'm not familiar with any of the tools you listed, but unless you are planning to grind jointer/planer knives, I think you'll prefer the hollow ground edge, that you get from one of the ones that uses the edge of the grinding wheel, when it comes time to sharpen.

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    Registered User PaulD's Avatar
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    If I were doing enough volume of woodworking to justify the expense they look like a great machine. I'm sure that was a good investment. For years I had been considering the Delta that has the big, slow turning aluminum oxide wheel with the water bath. That would still give you a hollow grind but it would be a shallow concavity and the risk of burning would be minimal between the water bath and the slow speed. They also have one with a horizontal stone that would be nice for jointer knives.

    What I settled on is a 1725 RPM 2 wheel grinder with 8" wheels. For water cooling I use an I.V. drip bag hung overhead with the dripper mounted on a wire to the grinder so I can position it where the tool edge meets the wheel. I adjust it so it drips about once every 2 seconds and it keeps things pretty cool. BTW: the I.V. drip bags are also handy for drip-irrigating your houseplants when you're on vacation.

    pd
    "... beauty is not found in the excessive but what is lean and spare and subtle" - Terry Tempest Williams

  9. #9

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    Having recently spent many a happy hour lapping and grinding blades for a 405 combination plane, I'm toying with the idea of getting a Shinko motorised whetstone (450rpm, horizontally mounted japanese waterstone)

    Any experience with these?

  10. #10
    Registered User Jonathan Peck's Avatar
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    For less than the cost of a Tormek is what you might describe as scary sharp on steroids. The Veritas® Mk.II Power Sharpening System has gotten some pretty good reviews among hand tool groups.

    http://www.leevalley.com/wood....1,43072

    That said, I find my Baldor 632E 6" 1800 RPM Deluxe Grinder grinder and a couple of oil stones work for me.
    And now for today's weather....sunny, with a chance of legs

    "Give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe." - Abraham Lincoln

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    Registered User sunburst's Avatar
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    By the way, you can buy replacement "stones" for the Tormek (under $70 last time I checked).
    Before I found the used machine, I was going to set up a belt driven wet grind system with a shaft and pillow block bearings. In other words, you can make your own.

    Paul, if I can find it, I have a left over IV bag around here somewhere. I think I might set it up to drip into a hot pan or plate on my shop wood stove to help out with the humidity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by (dunbarhamlin @ Feb. 06 2007, 12:24)
    Having recently spent many a happy hour lapping and grinding blades for a 405 combination plane, I'm toying with the idea of getting a Shinko motorised whetstone (450rpm, horizontally mounted japanese waterstone)

    Any experience with these?
    I have one similar and it's the only way to go with Japanese iron. These tools are very different from modern day western tools.

    In the old days, even european tools had laminated edges. This was due to several factors. First, tool steel was hard to come by and so small pieces were hammer welded to softer backing material. Second, tool steel was hard to sharpen and you didn't typically have powered grinders or even one of those big wheel stones.

    Today the cutting steel on the Japanese tooling is recognized as being much harder than your typical western style tool. They can do this because they still laminate a thin (and brittle) layer of very hard steel to a mild steel backer. This allows for an edge that lasts longer and can be given the ultimate edge while not shattering when it encounters a knot. Tool steel that hard in the size of a typical chisel would break like a metal file when struck with a hammer. I find when sharpening this type of tool I imagine that I am only sharpening the fine thin hard material at the leading edge. If I lean on the entire edge I find that the mild steel grinds away quickly and the bevel angle becomes too accute. This is also the reason that hollow grinding the angle is not necessary for the Japanese style blades.

    Greg
    An artist has to deal with his own inner demons.
    A craftsman has to deal with his clients.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by (PaulD @ Feb. 06 2007, 09:35)
    I rarely regrind a chisel or plane iron... I mostly just touch them up on a stone or my "Scary Sharp" glass plate & sandpaper.
    I tried that last night on my plane iron and a cheap Stanley chisel. Worked great. I went on to finish up with my 10k grit wetstone and stropped to a mirror finish.

    What would you use on a couple of Swiss gouges that got dropped. One side on each gouge has an rough spot on the edge.

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    Quote Originally Posted by
    What would you use on a couple of Swiss gouges that got dropped. One side on each gouge has an rough spot on the edge.
    Are you saying that the cutting edges are damaged on one side? Or are you talking about the shaft? If it's been dropped and the cutting edge dinged it's a case where it will probably have to be ground back past the damage, then sharpened and honed. In that case I try to take the regrinding slowly, maintaining the original bevel angle and profile and making sure I don't heat the edge enough to turn it blue.

    I like working to lines, so when regrinding an edge I usually scribe a line parallel to the original edge with an extra fine Sharpie or Bic pen and grind a blunt edge to the line perpendicular to the shaft. Then I reset my grinder's tool rest and put the bevel back until I have a sliver of light still reflecting from the tip of the cutting edge. I take off the blunt tip on my oil stones or the coarse paper in my Scary Sharp* arsenal and finish out the sharpening and honing. This is all assuming it's a carving gouge... a lathe tool will get the regrinding treatment to a sharp edge, then maybe touched up on a coarse stone and the wire edge removed.

    If it's the shaft and if it were really bugging me I would just try to smooth it out with the grinder, a coarse stone, or a file, then maybe take some fine emery cloth to it. More than likely I'd leave a ding in the shaft alone.

    Paul

    *For anyone still unfamiliar with "Scary Sharp" or just wanting a fun read



    "... beauty is not found in the excessive but what is lean and spare and subtle" - Terry Tempest Williams

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    I can't afford a fancy system, but I recently bought a honing guide that seems much nicer than any of the others I've seen on the market, the Sharpening Sled. Made in the U.S., very sturdy and comfortable to use, and they make a model specifically for the Scary Sharp approach. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws....=1&rd=1

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    Quote Originally Posted by (Captain Crunch @ Feb. 06 2007, 12:43)
    For less than the cost of a Tormek is what you might describe as scary sharp on steroids. The Veritas® Mk.II Power Sharpening System has gotten some pretty good reviews among hand tool groups.
    For that kind of loot, I'd get a lapidary flat lap setup with diamond disks.

    Inland lapidary supply

    I'm not endorsing that particular machine; it's just an example of the type.

  17. #17
    Registered User Jonathan Peck's Avatar
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    The beauty of scary sharp is that you can get your tools...well, scary sharp without the expense of oil/water stones and grinders. All you need is a few sheets or carborundum sand paper and a flat surface. Although a hollow grind on a round wheel can definitely make light work of shapening, especially when first establishing your prefered bevel angle.

    I like the Baldor because it's a quality built heavy duty grinder that I also use for other things besides sharpening....besides, it should last a lifetime with minimal maintenance. I also like being able to keep two different grit wheels on it at the same time. Of course with the dry grind you have to be very careful about heating the tip, but you also need to take the same care with a wet grind as well.
    And now for today's weather....sunny, with a chance of legs

    "Give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe." - Abraham Lincoln

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