That loar sound

**Jonathan Peck** · Jan-22-2007, 1:33pm

Except for an actual Loar itself, who is making, or has made the most Loar sounding 'F' style mandolin? All subjective opinions are welcome

**SternART** · Jan-22-2007, 1:59pm

Lynn Dudenbostel has a reputation for Loarlike tone.....I played a recent Will Kimble that I thought sounded like an ol' Gibson too.
I have an early 80's Monteleone F5, that is well played and has much of what I find special in the old ones. YMMV

**Jonathan Peck** · Jan-22-2007, 2:19pm

Thanks, I guess I could clarify things a little. I'm thinking of unloading most of the instruments I've acumulated over the years in hopes of getting as close to the holy grail as I can get. The instrument would need to be obtainable, cost less than 15K, and be closer to the Loar sound than my Dearstone, which has many Loar-like qualities.

**Greenmando** · Jan-22-2007, 2:41pm

The Gibson MM and DMM both have that Loar sound, the DMM even has the smell of a old Loar.

**cgwilsonjr** · Jan-22-2007, 2:55pm

I'd get a Brentrup with a red spruce top. Dry, woody, deep and powerful. I think the Dudes, Gil's and Monty's are pretty much out of the reach of mere mortals these days. I also think Wiens and Red Diamond specialize in near-exact replicas of Loars. There are many great builders to choose from. Cheers, Chuck

**Flowerpot** · Jan-22-2007, 3:47pm

I gotta say, this is a tough question and one open for interpretation -- cause if you lined up 10 Loars, they wouldn't all sound identical. Nor would everybody choose the same one as their favorite (some will like a deeper tone, some more pronounced midrange, some the dry woody treble).

But with that disclaimer in mind, my personal pick of the Loar-esque mandolins (of my admittedly small sampling) is Hans Brentrup's "Lloyd" model. When I first heard it in person, I though it had that old, core vintage tone, which it wore with hefty authority (i.e. it's a hoss). Especially up the neck, the treble is so throaty and clear, it just sounds OLD to me. Now I own one and would recommend it highly. (Got some sound clips if you want to hear.)

I played a Dearstone for many years, and still have it, so I may know where you're coming from... good luck in your quest, and play a lot of mandolins before you make your choice.

**jjboone101** · Jan-22-2007, 3:53pm

Many believe the Wiens models sound close in tone to the old Loars.

In fact, if you search the archives, there is a sound clip posted by DanB of Tony Williamson's A/B comparison of his Loar and a new Wiens at last year's LoarFest event...

**dmamlep** · Jan-22-2007, 4:00pm

I have a 96 f5L and love it, have played lots of mm and dmm models and havent seen one yet with the sound of mine/. thats not to say that a real loar wouldnt sound better or at least thats what mas would think, I played a K&G that sounded better it was an even numbered mandolin, I had an odd number and it didnt sound as good. I guess
K made one number and G made the other lol

**Jonathan Peck** · Jan-22-2007, 4:24pm

Originally Posted by (Flowerpot @ Jan. 22 2007, 16:47)

I played a Dearstone for many years, and still have it, so I may know where you're coming from... good luck in your quest, and play a lot of mandolins before you make your choice.

Thanks, that hits pretty close to the mark. I've been looking at Brentrup's "Lloyd" model for some time. It's good to hear from a satisfied customer. I'd love to hear the sound clips.

I'm in no super rush, so an open waiting list is in no way a deterant. My instruments that aren't seeing play time (mostly guitars) are losing their appeal and are becoming easier to part with. My only hesitation is that I will be selling probably five instruments for one with no guarantees that the one will be 'the' one. But on the other hand, I also prefer a small builder like Hans, or others mentioned, to a factory built instrument so it's hard to believe that I could be dissapointed.

BTW - I also plan to keep my Dearstone

-jonathan

**kudzugypsy** · Jan-22-2007, 4:26pm

my honest answer would be (and i'm not attempting to be a smart a$$ - this is the very route i took myself) - how many Loars have you played? i mean, really spent enough time with to understand why & what sound you are after. could you play say, 10 mandos and be able to tell which one had the loar sound?
If you were to have a mando commissioned by someone, you would need to input as many characteristics as possible that appeal to you. i'm sure some luthiers get the "make it as close to a LL as possible" - but often the final product is not the sound someone had in mind.

the top-tier luthiers - the ones mentioned like Dudenbostle and Gilchrist really can get close to (or equal) that sound...but you're in the $25k range for those (and you cant even get one anyway) ....SO, the next step is to KNOW what sound you are looking for and when you hear it in a $15K (or less) mando, you know that is what you are after.

i was lucky enough to be able to spend a lot of time around vintage instruments and people who really knew what made them so desireable in my teenage years, and i just soaked *that sound* up - and believe me, it took a LONG time to find that mandolin - i played and could have bought Gil's when they were selling for $3500 on up, but that was back in the X-braced craze of the 90's and that wasnt the sound i was after, so i passed on a lot of good mandos i probably should have snatched up cheap. there are also a lot of mando's hyped as Loar sounding that, while excellent instruments, dont sound to ME like that have that lineage - i will stick my neck out and say that Nuggets, the ones i have played (and i also own one) dont have that LL sound, but that doesnt mean it cant stand on its own merits by any means. the same with the X-braced Gils.

ok, so what did i find that appealed to me? .... a 1990 Paganoni - you just know when you pick it up and hit it - there is that dry, throaty mid-range *honk* and bell-like trebles LL's are known for - plus, i dont think there are very many who get all the little details like John did - heck, he even built identical replica cases for each mando! - he could have easily just included an off the shelf case, but he went that extra step. the varnish, the shading, the neck profile - all very authentic - and when you play it against a Loar, very similiar characteristics.

**Jonathan Peck** · Jan-22-2007, 4:39pm

kudzugypsy,

Alot of wisdom to digest there. The fact of the matter is that I don't know, but the more I play, the closer I am getting to zeroing in on the sound that I want...need. I would like to try and stay patient about this but..."dry, throaty mid-range *honk* and bell-like trebles" oh man...where do I get me some of that

-jonathan

**G. Fisher** · Jan-22-2007, 4:42pm

Which Loar do you want your mandolin to sound like? I believe that even among Loars they all have a slightly different sound. Also, some of them have had extensive work done and aren't really very close to being orginal.

My favorite for sound is John Reischmans and of the 10 I've played I've only really liked one. I prefer the sound of the 20's Ferns to the Loars myself.

**cutbait2** · Jan-22-2007, 4:49pm

ah grasshopper, that's the $25,000 question, my advice save yourself some anxiety and don't even worry about it until you've played long enough and well enough to answer the question for yourself. or attend all the festivals you can this spring and listen to the mando's live. pick out the one's you like the tone of.

**danb** · Jan-22-2007, 5:01pm

My personal experience says Dude, the early Monteleones, and recently Jamie Wiens have the most mid-rangey and Loar-like treble to them. I've not played one, but have heard very similar reviews of Paganonis.

The Monte in the classifieds now surprised the heck out of me, I was visiting it just last week in a room full of loars. Has that magical midrange & nice rolling bass. It's from ~79, so I reckon it's had a good start on "aging its voice".

For my dollar I think Jamie has the ultimate treble sound. If you've played "A loar like this" you know what I mean, where "piano tone" means you hear a bass subnote under a steinway-like clarity (with no harsh overtones) right the way up the neck. I was really stunned to try one of his 2 years ago and to find myself preferring the A&E strings on it to the Loar I was borrowing at the time. The bass wasn't there like the Loar, but in 10-20 I bet it sure will be.

My favorite Loar tone is the Virzi/March 31 batch. That's a very particular sound, requires the virzi to work, etc. Your mileage will vary.. best advice was given above to say "which Loar do you mean"!

**kudzugypsy** · Jan-22-2007, 5:08pm

hey dan - do you still have the sound clip of Tony Williamson A/B'ing the Weins against the Loar? that was a great example of the quintessential Loar sound vs modern interpretation played by a master who knows how to pull every drop of *that sound* from a Loar (or anything else). when i heard that a while back and TW kicked into the intro to Mon's "Its Mighty Dark for Me to Travel"....man, that sent chills up my spine! thats THE SOUND.

my vote for quintessential Loar is #73728 (07/09/23)
http://www.mandolinarchive.com/perl/show_mando.pl?2985

just an amazing instrument, no matter how hard you pushed it, it kept giving the goods...haunting instrument, i can still hear it in my head to this day...actually, it was so good i made myself put it down, i just couldnt take it any longer

**danb** · Jan-22-2007, 5:25pm

Tony W plays Wiens 22 vs the "Rybka" Loar. I think the Wiens is the second one on the clip..

**kudzugypsy** · Jan-22-2007, 5:42pm

thanks dan - what a great clip!

i'm gonna have to drive over and see Tony this week and get some of that in person! I cant even play around him, i just want to listen - its one of those times when i forget to even play cause i'm concentrating on him so much...plus he's always got some goodies laying around

**danb** · Jan-22-2007, 5:58pm

Couple more I did on that Wiens.. I had microphones with me at Loarfest

Scotland

Ragtime Annie

**hanknc** · Jan-22-2007, 8:08pm

Any F5 copy from any maker will by definition have the Loar sound. Just some have more of it than others do.

**mandolooter** · Jan-22-2007, 8:24pm

Very nice A/B but with the head phones that first one has a way "thicker" tone to my ear. Of course I wish I hadnt know which was which so my brain didn't add anything...lol!

**goose 2** · Jan-22-2007, 9:24pm

I would vote for a Master Model in the price range you mentioned. I owned one for many years and it was just great. I played a half dozen of them and they all seemed to be in that tone family. I now have a DMM that I will never sell. I think that there are VERY FEW top builders that sound much like a Loar. I have owned or played essentially all the ones mentioned above (except a Brentrup) and I personally believe that the strident, penetrating, dark midrange snap that Loars have is really hard to find. Pags and Dudes are the closest non-MM/DMM modern day instruments to catch that tone. BTW the other models in the Gibson line do not sound very Loarish to me either.

**carleshicks** · Jan-22-2007, 9:43pm

I have that Master Model that goose2 used to own, and it sounds more like a loar than any other modern mando I have played. Don't get me wrong I haven't played them all so I can't say go by a Master Model or a DMM but the one I now have will be mine forever.

As far as looking like a loar Brenthrup's Lloyd and Jamie Wiens' mandos are about the best out there. Also on the Mando Tasting CD from Ken Cartwright I thought that The Hieden sounded very Loarish.

**ipmala888** · Jan-23-2007, 12:31am

I got to play a Loar about 1 year ago--when I went down to Gibson OAI in Nashville to pick up my new MM (which was hand-picked by Charlie D., Big Joe, Danny, Jackie Miller, and Dave Harvey). I asked them to call me when they found
me a "cannon", and mine is loud enough to knock down a large
building--a real banjo killer. Anyway, the Loar was beat up
and had a virizi it and didn't have any volume, and had high
stiff action. The neck had been shaved down (it belonged to
Ricky Skaggs). Anyway, there was no comparison to my MM,
which was only one week old. So, not being an expert on the
Loars, my only thought is--is that the way a Loar sounds ??
What about loudness? And, what exactly is 'the Loar' sound?
My MM has a huge bottom end, killer mids, and crystal clear
highs--isn't that what a Loar is supposed to have ?? Maybe
I haven't been fortunate enough yet to play a really good
Loar--but what is a good 'Loar' supposed to sound like ??
IMO for the $150K-$200K prices that they sell for today, you
should have everything--loudness, big bottom end, explosive
mid-range, and beautiful clean highs--and the action should
play like butter.

**sgarrity** · Jan-23-2007, 12:44am

I've never played a Loar. Never been up close and personal with one even. (Although now that I live in VA and am close to NC I'm hoping to change that one day soon.) But the MM that Mr Hicks now owns is exactly what I think of when I think of a good Loarish mando. I can still remember hearing/playing it. The tone of that mando just stuck in my head. I played a new MM at the Gibson Showcase that was every bit as good too. I actually preferred it over two DMM's that they had there. As critical as I've been of some of their other work, Gibson is definitely getting it right with these two models. Now, three mandos I'd love to play and A/B with a good MM would be the Brentrup Lloyd, the Red Diamond vintage and one of Jamie Wiens. They all 3 sure have the look! And I'd be willing to bet the tone to match.

Shaun

**Jonathan Peck** · Jan-23-2007, 9:30am

Originally Posted by (mandopluker @ Jan. 22 2007, 18:51)

Capin'

You reeling enough now

That was very sobering. I wonder how the Wiens will sound over time. The Loar is unbelieveable. I should probably look at some old Fern's for that 'Ole' broke in sound', but I'm sure that they're out of my price range.

-jonathan