Set up when you buy from the builder

[red7flag]

As many of you know, I have my mandola and the F4 with Dave Harvey at Gibson to do a complete set up (I might add at considerable cost). There were some pretty severe set up issues with both. I want to say that I am not bashing these makers, as these are great sounding instruments and well made. However, the set up as they arrived was not acceptable. I see buying from the builder as different than buying from a local shop. In my case the makers are far away. In one case Colorado and the other the Czech Republic. A part of the problem, not all, was climatic changes. I am curious if any of you have had this issue and if so how have you dealt with it?

[mythicfish]

"There were some pretty severe set up issues with both."
"... considerable cost."
Could you be specific?

Curt

[red7flag]

Sure Curt, the mandola was fitted with a mandolin bridge, as the strings are different, that meant that they were not compensated correctly (gdae vs cgda). The nuts on both were too low and are being replaced. The frets on the F4 were not level. The bridge on the F4 was misplaced and not seated correctly. Both had buzzing problems as a result of the nuts being too low. On the other hand, both of these instruments are made from great woods and have great tone and I love the look. If there was not a strong instrument at the core I would not be going through this process.
Tony

[sunburst]

As a builder, I can say that wooden instruments move, and a set up is only temporary. The only instruments that I ever see with near perfect set up are the ones that have just been set up. Not two weeks ago, but a couple of days ago. It is much easier for the maker or manufacturer to leave the strings a little high to avoid buzzes in case the action gets lower in shipping, or from going to an area of lower humidity.
Necks can also move and cause fret problems in the early life of an instrument.

OTOH, a low nut, un-level frets, and an incorrect bridge installed, are not that type thing at all, and should have been done correctly by the builder.

[david blair]

When visiting the Gibson booth at Telluride the Mandolins were all in dire need of set up help or at least some adjustment that would have helped them to play and sound better. The only one that didn't require anything in my opinion was the DMM hiding under the table. It played almost as nice as my Lewis F5!
I recently purchased a 1960 ES175 Archtop guitar from a local store, and after several truss rod adjustments and correct placement of the bridge it plays like butter. Can't help but wonder why retailers don't have someone around to do this?

[Antlurz]

Can't help but wonder why retailers don't have someone around to do this?

It's an expensive proposition if it can be got by without doing so. Depending on the situation of that particular shop, calling in occasional help or farming out an occasional job might make the "make or break" difference in the establishments survival.

Ron

[mandomadman]

I hate to say this but I've found some builders are not players they just build. If you don't play what you make or sell, how would you know what's correct or not or what a experienced player expects as to what feels or sounds 'right'. When I worked in music stores I was amazed at the poor set-ups that came from the factories even on many of the high-end instruments. I would ponder that one of the reasons instruments regardless of their price point came with such high action was to mask any buzzes or dead notes they may contain. I'd tweak nearly every stringed instrument that came in just to make some playable. Having the instruments in the store set-up properly often made the difference whether or not it would sell. As far as using the wrong bridge on your mandola that's just inexcusable.

[Ted Eschliman]

As a builder, I can say that wooden instruments move, and a set up is only temporary.

I would also add to what John said. When I get a new instrument, I don't bother to have any major adjustments done until it's had a chance to settle more. I don't think I've ever had a new instrument that hasn't had some prerequisite tweaking, and I like to wait 3-6 weeks of settling before taking it in to my tech or even change strings, and even then I have it set up for ME, not for someone else's playing.

Far too many variables here to be bashing builders. Shipment jarring, wood moving, climate change, individual player preferences; it's kind of like horse shoes and hand grenades, give them credit for being "close."

Then you have to be careful of some insecure repair folk, the ego gets control and they start armchair-quarterbacking about how bad someone else's work is, only to puff themselves up. It's all opinions. More art than science.

[TheMandoShop]

As a builder, I can say that wooden instruments move, and a set up is only temporary. The only instruments that I ever see with near perfect set up are the ones that have just been set up. Not two weeks ago, but a couple of days ago. ...

Very sensible post John. That's why I do a final set up on each mando just before I ship it. I also go the extra mile to level and crown the frets when necessary. It's the only way to assure that the customer will get an instrument that plays well when he gets it. I also absorb the cost which many are not willing to do.

[sunburst]

Good for you, Kyle.
In an ideal world, every retailer would do that, but as has been mentioned, it's expensive. It takes skill, and skill is expensive, either in time or in money.
That's also a good reason to buy from a shop that includes a set up with the sale rather than trying to save a few $ by going to a "big box" store.