1916 whiteface a mandolin

**dmamlep** · Jan-09-2007, 7:48pm

I saw this mandolin, the owner says that it used to belong to Bill Monroe, I said you got any Pictures, no, Well then its only worth going price few hundred, he says that Bill sold his dad the mandolin when he got the f5 He played. He has picture of his dad when he played it in Chicago With Bill, He says the some of the band was drinking and Bill fired them and he played some with him.
This mandolin is an A style white face,untill then I had never seen one,it was in pretty good shape, fist set of strings missing, does anyone have a picture of Bill Playing a simular Mandolin,any comments?

**Paul Hostetter** · Jan-09-2007, 8:25pm

White-face A-3s weren't introduced until 1918. Bill was then seven years old.

Bill in 1932, age 21, well before the Bluegrass Boys. Note the F-5:

Is this guy also trying to sell you a bridge?

**Steve Cantrell** · Jan-09-2007, 8:27pm

A few hundred for a white-faced A, provided it has no structural flaws, is still a heck of a deal if he was willing to part with it for that amount.

**Jim Garber** · Jan-09-2007, 8:44pm

Originally Posted by (dmamlep @ Jan. 09 2007, 20:48)

first set of strings missing

lessee... that would 25% of the strings, so then 75% of the price had it had all its strings...

Jim

**dmamlep** · Jan-09-2007, 9:02pm

I may be wrong when I say white face, he called it a pumpkin seed, but the face was white and the inside did say 1916,it has not been played in long time. actually he wasnt trying to sell it. but did say he would sell it, and I told him it was worth only few hundred

**JoeD** · Jan-09-2007, 9:02pm

Originally Posted by

Bill in 1932, age 21, well before the Bluegrass Boys. Note the F-5:

Dang. Even at 21, he looked like a prickly son-of-a-gun.

**Paul Hostetter** · Jan-09-2007, 9:39pm

Pumpkinseed means not very much, though some of the orangish ones are described now as "pumpkin tops."

Gibson didn't put dates inside their mandolins.

White-face A-3:

Pumpkin-top A:

This color was available on A-Jr, A-, A-0, A-1, A-2, earlier A-3, and A-4.

**cooper4205** · Jan-09-2007, 9:40pm

i have seen another old picture of Bill and Charlie (it looks to be really early, perhaps when Bill first moved to Chicago?) and it looks like Big Mon is holding a snakehead gibson. i'll try and find it when i get home from work.

**dmamlep** · Jan-10-2007, 8:08am

Thats the mandolin, in that pic, the white one, and I saw the date on the inside, I am almost certain. yep if you could show a pic with Bill playing the white one, it would verify what the owner says, this guy inherited it from his dad the one that he says he got from Bill while playing it in Chicago. HE dont play any thing and not interested in playing thats why I dont think he would lie, we way we got talking about it was I was doing some work for him and ask him to buy one of my Cds he saw me playing the mandolin and told me of how his dad had played with Bill and how he came to buy that one from Bill,because Bill didint like it.

**Jim Garber** · Jan-10-2007, 8:34am

One of the few pics of WSM without his iconic Loar. This looks like an old Epiphone.

Jim

**Jerry Byers** · Jan-10-2007, 8:38am

Is that a 2-point?

**mythicfish** · Jan-10-2007, 9:12am

"if you could show a pic with Bill playing the white one, it would verify what the owner says.."

Such a photo (if genuine) would only indicate that "Bill" is holding a white mandolin. Whether it is the mandolin in question, or if it was owned by him is open to speculation. Here's my general rule of thumb: If someone says that your mother loves you ... check it out.

Curt

**Darryl Wolfe** · Jan-10-2007, 9:28am

Originally Posted by (Paul Hostetter @ Jan. 09 2007, 21:25)

White-face A-3s weren't introduced until 1918. Bill was then seven years old.

Bill in 1932, age 21, well before the Bluegrass Boys. Note the F-5:

Is this guy also trying to sell you a bridge?

Come on Paul You mean "Note the F-7"

**dmamlep** · Jan-10-2007, 11:04am

All I am saying is I dont think this guy had any reason to lie, I know money, but we were talking mandolins and he said he had one that belonged to his dad,said he got it from Bill when they played together. I have a pic of him with it. This guy dont play music, he has no agenda to fabricate this story. And if it did belong to Bill at some time, it still wouldnt be worth to much more would it.

**Jim Garber** · Jan-10-2007, 11:49am

Originally Posted by (dmamlep @ Jan. 10 2007, 12:04)

All I am saying is I dont think this guy had any reason to lie, I know money, but we were talking mandolins and he said he had one that belonged to his dad,said he got it from Bill when they played together. I have a pic of him with it. This guy dont play music, he has no agenda to fabricate this story. And if it did belong to Bill at some time, it still wouldnt be worth to much more would it.

This guy may not be lying, however, in families it is very common for myths to develop over time with mishearings, misunderstandings, etc. Who knows... maybe this guy's father played with Bob Monroe.

I am sure that some of the rabid WSM fans will corroborate the fact that Bill did or did not ever own or play a white-faced A3.

Jim

**fatt-dad** · Jan-10-2007, 12:10pm

I was just reminded of the WSM toaster that went up for auction at eBay. I think there may have been a $20 or $30 premium for providence.

fatt I-got-a-white-face-A3-too dad

**Paul Hostetter** · Jan-10-2007, 12:33pm

You mean that an F-7 isn't just a larval F-5?? Oh dear, here comes the dunce cap and the paddle.

**dmamlep** · Jan-10-2007, 12:46pm

I do hope someone out there will find a picture of him playing one. And I am kin to Jesse James, arent you.everyone else is, lol'

**Darryl Wolfe** · Jan-10-2007, 1:03pm

Originally Posted by (Paul Hostetter @ Jan. 10 2007, 13:33)

You mean that an F-7 isn't just a larval F-5?? Oh dear, here comes the dunce cap and the paddle.

Too funny. I had to save the picture for future self degradation purposes

**mrmando** · Jan-10-2007, 1:29pm

Originally Posted by (dmamlep @ Jan. 10 2007, 13:46)

I do hope someone out there will find a picture of him playing one. And I am kin to Jesse James, arent you.everyone else is, lol'

Yes, I am kin to Jesse James, as a matter of fact. Something like an eighth cousin, or so I'm told. But I don't have Jesse's mandolin.

If you can get the serial number from the mandolin's label, we'll be more than happy to look up the year of manufacture for you. A whiteface A3 in decent shape could be an excellent value for a "few hundred," depending on how much repair work it might need. Without a bill of sale or some documentation, there is no way to verify that Bill Monroe ever owned this mandolin. I agree that the guy has no reason to lie, but when stories are told and retold for decades, they often depart from the bare facts.

If you don't want the instrument, someone else here might, whether or not it belonged to Bill Monroe.

**MandoSquirrel** · Jan-10-2007, 3:43pm

If I were able to be in the market, I'd pay "few hundred" for 'most any pre-war A model in repairable or better condition.

**atetone** · Jan-10-2007, 7:42pm

So how much does he want for this mandolin?
How many hundred is "a few hundred"?
If it is in good condition I think these whitefaces are going for about $1200 to $1500 ?
I haven't been following them lately so I might be off a bit with that guesstimate.

**cooper4205** · Jan-10-2007, 7:48pm

the vintage guitar price guide lists them at $2100(low)-$2500 (high) in excellent condition

**atetone** · Jan-10-2007, 10:17pm

I guess I haven't been paying attention to prices.
So in general, is the Vintage Guitar Price Guide reflective of "dealer" prices (i.e. what you would have to pay from Mandolin Bros etc..) or some other benchmark?
How does it relate to the prices that mandos go for on the Cafe classifieds for example?
I am just trying to get some idea of its relevance in regards to "dealer" vs "private" prices.
I realize that this might be one of those "all depends" type of questions but I am curious.

**Jim Garber** · Jan-11-2007, 7:08am

VG has some sort of statistical method to determine their prices. They survey a group of dealers as to values of items in exc condition. Then they do some sort of voodoo by lopping off the very high and very low prices to come up with their range.

I think many dealers up their prices figuring either the market will eventually get to them or else they are in no rush to move an item. It also gives them wiggle room for bargaining.

I just use the VG Guide as a benchmark and base prices on what I see and what I think is a fair price for the instrument taking its condition also into consideration.

Jim