Can a re-fret effect tone?

**MNDOLNR** · Dec-25-2006, 7:12pm

Can a refretting alter the tone of an instrument? If so, in what way? The tone that I get out my Givens (A4) right now is just perfect (thanks entirely to Larry Brown in LA...oh yeah, and Bob Givens), but I'm interested in putting larger frets on it. It currently has pretty slinky frets, and it's great for speed, but I really like the feel of the jumbo frets on my Lebeda (doesn't come close to the tone though). Also, the Givens has a very slender neck and string spacing...can this lead to any problems with larger frets? Trying to cram too much stuff in too small a space? Lemme know what you think...
thanks!

**Fretbear** · Dec-25-2006, 10:10pm

The larger frets will change the sound; you will get a fatter and thicker tone with less effort...some people don't care for them, but the "half as much fret for twice as much string (theory)" has never made any sense to me.

**Rick Turner** · Dec-25-2006, 10:14pm

Think of it this way...one end of the string goes to the bridge and the top and the air. The other end goes to the nut, a fret, and the neck. How would it be that one end of the string's termination would not affect tone? More string mass will equal more attack and sustain....

**Michael Cameron** · Dec-25-2006, 11:00pm

yup, i was just gettin ready to say the exact same thing!

**Michael Lewis** · Dec-26-2006, 12:32am

Anders, if you are worried about losing tone on your Givens when you install larger frets don't sweat it. You can always change back to the smaller frets if you find you don't like the large ones. Just replacing worn frets with new ones will change your tone a bit, and usually for the better.

**MNDOLNR** · Dec-26-2006, 1:14am

I think the Givens has the original frets from 88, so I'm probably due anyway. But y'know when you get 'er sounding just right, it's tough to risk doing anything stupid. Thanks for all the help...happy holidays.
a

**Desert Rose** · Dec-26-2006, 5:27am

You cant do any better than discussing this with Larry himself

I have yet to see anyone more knowlegable

Scott

**TheMandoShop** · Jan-11-2007, 12:34am

In addition to the larger frets I like to set them by applying hot hide glue to the slot before installing the fret. It makes for a solid setting with no gaps between the wood and the frets. It works very well for me.

**Big Joe** · Jan-11-2007, 9:03am

Your scale length should be relatively the same on both mandolins. Fret size may take a bit more space, but not enough to matter. I personally don't like fat frets. I think they lose tone and intonation. That is just my opinion. We use cyanoacrylate to set the frets rather then white or hide glue. It is more stable and does not pull lose like some adhesives. Once your mandolin is refretted (assuming it is done right) it will play and sound better.

**danb** · Jan-11-2007, 9:17am

perception-wise, a refret comes with a set-up. Usually the frets have a different height when they are new, hence some tweaks to the nut & bridge are required. Often times small set-up issues can get by your radar, so to speak.. I've found that having an instrument refretted is like going in for the 5,000 mile service. You get some bonuses. If I have a vintage piece with really worn frets, I have asked for MOP nuts to be made at the same time.. then I plan to keep the frets replaced and in good condition going forward..

**sunburst** · Jan-11-2007, 9:40am

I think fret size and material have only small contributions to tone, by themselves. I think the biggest factor affecting tone is the player. When the instrument is working right, it is easier for the player to get good tone. It follows that a good fret job will help to optimize the players ability to get good tone, so it follows that replacing worn, uneven, or loose frets will lead to better tone. It also follows that the player might get better tone playing on frets that he/she finds more comfortable, so a player who prefers "fat" frets might get better tone with them, while a player who prefers "skinny" frets might, in turn, get better tone with them.

**Flowerpot** · Jan-11-2007, 10:27am

Right, John, tone is affected by playability. But after going through several re-frets and re-dressings on a particular mandolin, I came to the conclusion that the fret size does make a subtle but noticable difference in tone. In particular, if the frets are high enough that you don't get much contact between the string and the fingerboard, I tended to get more brassy and less woody tone. So I tend to think you get a bit more chunky woody sound for lower profile frets, but that may or may not hold true for somebody else's playing style and finger pressure.