Yet another glue question...

**jackofall** · Dec-25-2006, 12:47pm

I got a StewMac Campfire kit from my wife for Christmas, and I'd like to know what you experienced builders recommend as the best glue to go with.

Bear in mind that I'm a total beginner, and a clumsy idiot. I have a minuscule budget and no specialist experience or tools. No heated glue-pots here...

I have done the usual search through the forums for glue topics, and all I am sure of is that there are some very strong opinions!

I see Titebond Original, and Titebond Liquid Hide Glue are both readily available here in the UK. Any good?

A bit of guidance here, please?

Ta very much, in advance.

**Rick Turner** · Dec-25-2006, 1:53pm

Hot hide glue would probably be best, but there's a learning curve and you have to really prepare for the glue-ups and move quickly. LMI white glue is good; we use it a lot in my shop. Stay away from any of the "liquid hide glue" products, and for a first instrument, Original TiteBond is probably your best bet, though do understand that it does "cold creep"...that is it slowly moves under years of tension.

**jackofall** · Dec-25-2006, 2:47pm

LMI white glue? Whassat?

(In case you couldn't tell, I'm not a woodworker or luthier...)

Thanks for the reply.

**Kirk Albrecht** · Dec-25-2006, 3:09pm

LMI is the acronym for Luthier's Mercantile International, a great source for building tools, etc. Just google them and find the white glue they sell.

**jackofall** · Dec-25-2006, 4:24pm

Ah ha! Of course.

Done. Thanks, Kirkola!

**Hans** · Dec-25-2006, 4:49pm

For a campfire mandolin just use Titebond. Thousands of instruments have been built using it. Works just fine. Stay away from Titebond liquid hide glue.

**Tebbie bear** · Dec-25-2006, 6:48pm

Originally Posted by (Hans @ Dec. 25 2006, 17:49)

Stay away from Titebond liquid hide glue.

Any specific reason why? i ask because i just used this glue to for the fretboard on an emando i am building, should i not have?

**Dale Ludewig** · Dec-25-2006, 7:18pm

Because it has a reputation of not holding very well over time.

**Bill Snyder** · Dec-25-2006, 7:18pm

Originally Posted by (Tebbie bear @ Dec. 25 2006, 18:48)

Originally Posted by (Hans @ Dec. 25 2006, 17:49)

Stay away from Titebond liquid hide glue.

Any specific reason why? i ask because i just used this glue to for the fretboard on an emando i am building, should i not have?

Here is a link to more information on the liquid hide glue.

**jackofall** · Dec-26-2006, 6:39pm

If the amateur builders will indulge me, Hans has me wondering how the pro's will answer this one...

So, professional builders, Titebond or LMI white for a beginner who wants to do a good job (assuming that I am REALLY not ready or equipped for real hide glue)?

Thanks for all the input so far

**Rick Turner** · Dec-26-2006, 7:48pm

Well, I qualify as a pro, and that's what I said, and I'm sticking to it.

I've talked to some pros who do not like the LMI stuff, but we've used it here on hundreds of instruments with nothing but just fine, trouble-free results. I trust that it will prove trouble-free way down the line as well. I believe (though I've not personally tested) that it takes a bit more heat than Titebond will, though as we recently found out, 140 degrees in a hot car isn't great for the LMI glue. That was on a uke whose bridge was pulling off the the top warping. I can say that even though the bridge was lifting, I had a devil of a time getting it the rest of the way off. At any rate, the folks at LMI have done their research on that particular glue, and it's really good stuff and no more expensive, really, than Titebond.

If you are going to use Titebond, though, absolutely do not use anything other than the original formula unless you want a nice waterproof elastic mess.

**Bill Snyder** · Dec-26-2006, 10:06pm

Check the date code on the Tightbond as well. Really should be used within a year. For no more than it costs it is not worth using old glue.
Titebond stamps a code on their glue bottles. The first character, a number, is the year it was made, the second character, a letter, is the month (A= January, B=February, etc.).

**Michael Cameron** · Dec-27-2006, 4:56am

Rick Turner says: "hide-glue is probably best"...(esp. for a newby)but building what I see as primarily(maybe 99.9%?) electric instruments,ukuleles being the only acoustic instruments you build?(I'm sure I will be corrected if I'm wrong),Rick,I have to wonder,among other things,how much hide-glue do you use/have you used;and on what instruments?
# You begin the film clip on your website mentioning "acoustic" guitars all the while an obviously boinky-sounding(IMHO) electric is playing in the background.....if that guy who was playing thinks that he was sounding like a D-28 he is very mistaken.
# #No acoustic instruments made by you(LET ALONE MANDOLINS!?) are to be heard;not even the ukulele that was SHOWN was even strummed( I wanted to hear it!!). The little boy #just talked about how you put a carbon fiber thingy in the neck of the uke to keep it from buzzing. Sounds pretty silly to me.There just ain't that much pressure from 4 nylon uke strings. Ukes don't need carbon fiber reinforced necks to keep em from buzzing.
# # I agree you are a "pro";but not in the acoustic world,right? #Am I missing something here?

**jackofall** · Dec-27-2006, 5:37am

Originally Posted by (Rick Turner @ Dec. 26 2006, 20:48)

Well, I qualify as a pro, and that's what I said, and I'm sticking to it...

Doh, I didn't phrase that well, did I?

Apologies, Rick. I know that! I've seen the interesting range on your website.

I just meant to try to get some of the other serious, experienced builders to chip in with their takes on it.

It probably seems daft for a newbie with a Campfire kit to be looking for advice from pros, but I intend to take it further once I have the basics down, and I figure you start as you mean to go on... doing the best job you can.

**Links** · Dec-27-2006, 10:19am

Catfish:

What the he## have you been smoking? Nothing personal, just curious!

**Hans** · Dec-27-2006, 10:30am

Lookit, we don't need posts like this...on either side. Also, this ain't no Loar we'se talkin' about. Titebond regular will do nicely. Use hot hide if you care to...that's fine too. Titebond liquid hide works good on postage stamps. I have had one experience with LMI white, and the instrument fell apart after about a year. Seems started opening up. Granted it probably was a bad bottle, but I won't use it again. Ended up sawing the instrument in half.

**Antlurz** · Dec-27-2006, 1:04pm

Nobody has mentioned the third Titebond option. Titebond II. DON'T use it! Use the ORIGINAL formula. (Red label, not blue label)

That is, unless you primarily intend to play the campfire in the rain all the time.

The original Titebond formula is the one you want.

Ron

**Michael Cameron** · Dec-27-2006, 2:02pm

Dear Message Board members,please accept my sincere apology;Hans is right,my rude post wasn't no part of nothin'.
# Rick,please forgive my ignorant meanderings. Blonde Lebanese hash and malt liquor and public missives are just a bad combo.
Won't happen again. Promise.
# I hope I have not jeopardized my priviledges to post here.

**Rick Turner** · Dec-27-2006, 2:18pm

If you like to read Fretboard Journal, you'll know a lot more about the acoustic side of me in a few months. They're doing a major photo essay on my approach to building acoustic guitars...which I've been doing for quite some time, though, to be fair, it's not what I've been known for. Also, here's a link to an interview I did with American Lutherie that was published in the Winter 2000 issue featuring one of my acoustics on the cover of the magazine:

http://www.renaissanceguitars.com/interview.html

Then there's the fact that I've helped to teach about fifty people to build mandolins...

So you may find that I actually am quite qualified to talk glue here, and yes, I use hot hide glue along with about seven or eight other adhesives in my shop. I'm a gluebie, not a newbie...

Apology accepted...

**jackofall** · Dec-27-2006, 4:47pm

A nicely phrased apology, and an acceptance that clears up any gaps in our knowledge of credentials. Nice going, guys.

And I just ordered some Titebond Original (red label!)

All's well that ends well, eh? Thanks everyone!

**Links** · Dec-27-2006, 6:19pm

Catfish - Please accept my apology too, but please no more hash and malt liquor while posting! Just kidding, of course!

**Michael Cameron** · Dec-27-2006, 6:26pm

No worries,mate!

**John Bertotti** · Dec-27-2006, 7:36pm

I'm not qualified but I will say using hide glue wasn't nearly as hard as people made it sound. You just have to be prepared. Know exactly what your about to do, do a few dry runs and have everything sorted and laid out so it is quick to hand. If you stumble along the was it is fixable. If you take to long you can easily fix it also. If what you did is questionable pull it apart clean it up and do it again.

**Michael Cameron** · Dec-27-2006, 10:52pm

I think it was Don MacRostie,a true hide-glue miester,said "you have to be hot" to work the stuff. I can just see him bending down under an array of heat lamps placing tone bars, poppin sweat. His Red Diamond mandos are consistently wonderful. (I have #61 and #149). When the hide-glue goes from the hotpot out into cool air it starts to get a film on the outer surface(not good). That's pretty much everything I know about it except that a whole bunch of awesome-sounding older instruments were made with it,possibly even Loars.
# I wonder how many violin makers use Tite-Bond or similar aliphatic(?) glues? #I hear that a lot of furniture makers swear by it!
Sheesh,I'm an "acoustic" snob AND a glue fundamentalist.
Happy New Year

**Dennis Russell** · Dec-27-2006, 11:58pm

I have some VHS instructions with Don McRostie and Dan Erliwine building a Herring bone guitar. he said these are the glues I like to use, Hot hide glue was shown, and tightbond, and original formula and some super glues were also used. I want to know what Original Formula is? most of the time he used tightbond to glue things up especially the bracing on one of the plates and original formula on the other,, wich one is right? I use Tight bond, but I use hot hide glue only on violins, but I have a freind who has built over fifty violins in his life time, he says he uses tightbond on the neck joint where it is glued to the body. and Recently started to use two part weldwood cement on the neck joints,, he said he never had a return they stay together quite well. Dennis In Arizona