Writing an instrumental....

**the_tall_guy** · Nov-29-2006, 8:09am

Does anyone have any advice or tips on techniques when writing an instrumental song? I am experimenting with writing one and I was seeing if anyone could help me out. Thanks in advance.

**church st picker** · Nov-29-2006, 9:52am

good for you. i think more players should try composing some instrumentals - you can learn a lot about yourself as a player and musician that way.

sometimes i get ideas from noodling or practicing, but more often than not, i have the bones (time, form, melodic themes, etc.) of the instrumental in my head before i start. i think it's good to start with a sense of what you want it to sound and feel like so that it has some identity from the get go.

i find it much easier to compose if i have a clear sense of what style of instrumental i'm trying to write. you should ask yourself, is this going to be a fiddle-tune? a waltz? a meandering celtic tune? a solo piece? or just a jazz head with the intention of it being an all out jam? again, i think it's good to give the piece some identity up front. this will also make chording the instrumental much easier.

get the core ideas down and then start tinkering with it. compose and then revise and edit. don't try to make it perfect right away. let the tune go where it wants to go and then make decisions and think about arrangements.
and try not to force anything.

have fun with it!!

**DMC** · Nov-29-2006, 10:01am

I wouldn't try writing one just for the sake of it. Make sure you have something (a story, an idea, feeling etc) you want to express. Will a major or (and?) a minor key help you express this? What about the time signature and tempo?

The principles of creating a pleasing 'melody' can be found in any good theory book but it will only tell you what you already know intuitively if you already listen to and play music. Once you have composed a melody you are happy with you can go adding the harmony. That's what I do anyway. But I'm no J.S.B.....

**Ken Sager** · Nov-29-2006, 10:53am

Originally Posted by (DMC @ Nov. 29 2006, 09:01)

I wouldn't try writing one just for the sake of it. Make sure you have something (a story, an idea, feeling etc) you want to express. Will a major or (and?) a minor key help you express this? What about the time signature and tempo?

The principles of creating a pleasing 'melody' can be found in any good theory book but it will only tell you what you already know intuitively if you already listen to and play music. Once you have composed a melody you are happy with you can go adding the harmony. That's what I do anyway. But I'm no J.S.B.....

Why not write one just for the sake of writing one? Writing bad songs is good practice for writing good songs. We start the mandolin not being able to play well, right? Well, we get better. Don't not do it just because you haven't done it.

Expressing a story, idea, or emotion instrumentally is more challenging than you think. Start simpler than that. Learn to crawl before walking, before trying to run.

Here's a tip: start with a simple melody that you revert to playing whenever you're not playing something else. A repetetive melody can often be a latent tune waiting to be set free. Just keep playing it, find ways to vary it. Find chords that fit its movement. Find ways to vary the chords to see how that varies the melody.

Experiment with creativity. It's fun, and who knows where it will lead.

There are lots of resources online for writing songs, try a google search for tips on writing instrumentals. It's a big world out there.

Mostly, have fun.

Best,
Ken

**RobP** · Nov-29-2006, 12:15pm

I let melody ideas find me. Often I will just monkey around the primary chords in a particular key and a melody theme idea will pop out at me. The challenge then is taking a cool 20 second theme and turning it into a 2-minute piece. Remember the fiddle tune formula of ABABAB etc.. sometimes I will string 3 of these themes together and repeat them a few times.

I find one of the coolest things about playing mandolin is discovering these little melodic gems.

Let it flow!

Rob

**PaulD** · Nov-29-2006, 12:27pm

Ken's advice is good... I've written a couple of tunes and jotted down some "fragments" just based on something that came out while I was noodling. Other times I just have a melody in my head when I wake up and, after I can't figure out what it is, I'll write it down (although I've let more drift away than have made it to paper). A couple times I've gone back to trying to think of my emotional state or what was going on when the tune came out to help me name it, but I've never started with a theme, idea, emotion, etc.

When I'm writing down these ideas, or sometimes after the basic melody is down, I'll start thinking about what structure "fits": reel, jig, waltz, something more free-form, etc.

I have no idea how the "big boys" do it, but for the little bit of writing I've done this has worked well and I've been pleased with the outcomes. If I were writing tunes for a living or writing themes for shows then I think it would be a radically different story. I wouldn't have the luxury of waiting for the muse... I'd have to clock in and get to work!

pd

**picksnbits** · Nov-29-2006, 3:17pm

I certainly don't claim to be a songwriter, but I've been doing something lately that's brought a couple of tunes to me. If I pick up a mando in a store to see how she sounds I usually find myself standing there trying to think of a song to play. So I've quit trying to play anything in particular and just noodle around and really listen to the mando. I'm finding that the good ones usually seem to have a song in them that just sort of comes out. Problem is my memory is weak. When I get home, I can't remember what the mando told me. I'm either going to have to start carrying around a recorder, or buy every mando that sings to me.

**jmcgann** · Nov-29-2006, 5:25pm

Start with 12 notes per octave, and take away any that don't sound like your instrumental. Save those for if you go into jazz.

**Andrew Lewis** · Nov-29-2006, 11:10pm

Been writing a lot of instrumentals lately and have found that my best stuff comes when I hear something in my head that sounds great (time, tempo, feel, melody, everything) and I just have to go get it down. Then I quickly work out that melody on the mando and then sit down with Tabledit and start entering it in. My tip to you comes at this stage: don't get too married to what you initially came up with. You will likely find some interesting stuff by just messing around with the Tabledit (sticking extra notes here and there, removing some too). You can then put in simple guitar and bass parts that will play along with the tune so you can get the full feel of the piece. If you don't have Tabledit or something similar, check it out. It's free. It has added new dimensions to my songwriting (I don't have to keep doing the grab-mando-play-something-put-it-down-write-it-down-wash-repeat thing - I'm far more efficient and a bit more creative this way) Good luck to you!

**AlanN** · Nov-30-2006, 6:13am

Throw in some diminished licks, you'll make new friends

**DMC** · Nov-30-2006, 9:45am

'I wouldn't try writing one just for the sake of it.'

What I meant was if I go to an instrument with absolutley no idea of what I want to try and create I'll get nowhere. To me it would be like going to a blank canvass and having no idea of what I want to paint.#
That's just me

'Expressing a story, idea, or emotion instrumentally is more challenging than you think. Start simpler than that. Learn to crawl before walking, before trying to run.'

I disagree. In my opinion all music expresses something. Regardless of the complexity of the music. I've never heard music that didn't. But I have heard melodic series of notes and arpeggios that wasn't music. In fact that's what I end up writing if I am not trying to express something. I'm not talking about grand ideas here! Just a mood or feeling or whatever. Just offering my view. Hope that's okay

**Ken Sager** · Nov-30-2006, 9:49am

DMC,

Didn't mean to argue, just suggesting that one needn't start by TRYING to express something. Music expresses several things, and I'd never say it didn't. Sometimes following a melody creates the expression. It doesn't always pay to start with the end goal in sight. Sometimes you just have to start and the goal appears.

Best,
Ken

**John Gardinsky** · Nov-30-2006, 10:11am

Might I suggest a different but also effective approach? If you have no preconcieved melody then come up with a nifty chord progression first. Then use this skeleton to flesh out a melody with. You might be surprised at what you come up with.

**AW Meyer** · Nov-30-2006, 10:24am

I think it's important to come up with a melody, not just noodling. You should be able to hum or whistle it. Too often, I've had players play me their latest compositions and ask what I think. The problem has been that they were not compositions at all, because you couldn't hum or whistle them. My two cents.

**church st picker** · Nov-30-2006, 10:25am

"It doesn't always pay to start with the end goal in sight. Sometimes you just have to start and the goal appears."

that's a very good point. it's actually a common exercise for writers to just start writing and simply set pen to paper for 20 minutes and then read what's there. sometimes you get lucky and look back and find ideas worth exploring.

i imagine this same exercise could be useful for the composing musician.

**DMC** · Nov-30-2006, 10:27am

Ken,

I see your point now and I think think you're right. It can be a bit like writing fiction. Some writers can begin writing and not necessarily know where it's going. Others have to know before they start. I personally fall into the latter group but that's just me. I guess people shoud try any and all approaches and see what works for them. Cheers.

**AlanN** · Nov-30-2006, 10:34am

Aubrey Haynie has written some nifty pieces. He has the knack, and I would bet he comes up with a rhythmic thing first, then fleshes out the melody.

**Flowerpot** · Nov-30-2006, 12:04pm

What I'd suggest is to start with the melody, or at least a little progression of a few notes that sticks in the mind. If it's something that can be hummed or sang (at least the first phrase or two), like Mr Eh seys, it will connect with the listener better than something really technical. Now if you come up with a bunch of random chords and some licks that fill them in, then you've got a banjo tune, and we don't need none of that. ;.

**mandolooter** · Nov-30-2006, 3:18pm

Originally Posted by

Now if you come up with a bunch of random chords and some licks that fill them in, then you've got a banjo tune, and we don't need none of that. ;.

Ya made your point...lol!

**groveland** · Nov-30-2006, 4:13pm

You might think this is weird, but I write tunes when no one else is doing what I really want to hear. #If someone else writes what I want to hear, I buy it. #Otherwise, I have to make it myself.

To your point, instrumentals -

Currently, I often start out with a simple melody, plenty simple to leave tons of harmonic options, and then I harmonize it. #Sometimes that's clearly an A part looking for a B, or a B looking for an A, so I come up with the other part. #About then it's time to launch this thing rhythmically (if I haven't already) so I undergird it with a groove. #Try 3/4, see if that takes off. It's surprising how many ways you can approach a tune. #It's probably time for a C part by then, which often writes itself.

Arrangements can put a tune over, so that's another story.

Some thoughts; See if they make any sense:

Never repeat the same line/phrase 4 times in a row. #Yech. #Never AAAA. Look for phrase patterns like AABA, or AABC, or ABAC, you get the idea.
Try 'call and response' - Like have a 'statement', and then a hook line, and a corresponding statemment, and then the hook again, statement, hook.
Modulate.
Treat phrases like poetry - Make them 'rhyme'.
Never feel compelled to start a phrase or tune on the I chord.
Use relative minors freely - It can bring a static passage to life.
Add a recurring lick or flourish as a hook.
Be sure there's a builtin groove in the finished product.
Keep everything uncluttered, focused and clearly stated.
I dunno. Etc.

Edit: #I almost forgot! #The most important thing - A good tune always stands on its own, regardless of the performance. IMHO, YMMV.

**jmcgann** · Nov-30-2006, 4:18pm

Originally Posted by

The problem has been that they were not compositions at all, because you couldn't hum or whistle them.

Well, you have to be a pretty good whistler to do Stravinsky's Rite of Spring- and not too many folks would say it's 'not a composition at all'. My .02 cents...Your Friendly Devil's Advocate #

All approaches are good, writing-wise, if they get you to a good tune. I've written just melody and added chords; just chords and added melody; written tunes for a 30 piece orchestra with parts for each in mind as I wrote (slowly, mind you!)...solo mando pieces...written on paper with no instrument, written with an instrument, etc. etc. I've gotten good tunes and bad tunes with every method. You just never know...

**gh_mando** · Nov-30-2006, 6:31pm

My instrumentals (all total of 3 , but working on #4) evolved from practice and noddling over a period of time. My youngest daughter says "Dad, you did not write those, you just made them up". She knows I cannot read music. I keep trying.

**Seth Austen** · Nov-30-2006, 8:29pm

Some of my best tunes just happen, I start to play and they come out. Others require lots of work, coming up with one phrase and then rewriting, and crossing out more than I keep.

One bit of advise that I give students is to really develop one idea as opposed to stringing too many disparate ideas together.

Seth