Cross over questions

[JeffD]

As I mentioned in another post I just played my first electric the other day. I have been playing accoustic mandolin for many years.

Some questions about equipment. For those of you who play both - do you use the same picks, or do you have special picks more suited to electric.

The amp I was looking at has a microphone input - does this mean I can use the amp with a mike on my accoustic playing? Would you use the same amp for your electric as you would to amplify a miked accoustic? I am thinking of going all the way - i.e. no electrified accoustic or hollow body electric - I'm going for something like the Epiphone mandobird. (What a fun litte instrument to play!) With separate but equal mandolins, do I need separate amps - or can I use one amp for everything.

[EdSherry]

Most amps with a mike input (XLR) are "acoustic" amps voiced to sound good with vocals and acoustic instruments. #Most amps designed for electric instruments (including electric mandolins) don't sound good with acoustic instruments or vocals.

That said, there are some "modeling" amps that do a decent job for both. #

What amp were you looking at?

Picks -- I standardized on a single pick (Dunlop 1mm stiff nylon) for virtually all of my instruments years ago, but others prefer different types of picks for different instruments. #In particular, a lot of the electric mando players I know use a lighter pick on electric mando than the use on acoustic mando.

[mandroid]

I have used my Roland AC60 amplifier with a condenser micro phone or dynamic Schertler pickup, in one channel, on the acoustic.
[its a 30+30 watt stereo amp]
the magnetic coil [stacked humbucker] pickup equipped 4 string electric mando,
on the same amp,
and switch back and forth, lay one, instrument, #down
and pick the other up.

If more power is needed It can also function as a pre-amp to run another power amp, and whatever speaker will handle it..

I'm combining it with a KCW-1 powered Sub fills in the bottom well.
[When I run 2 #guitar synth modules one is often a bass, the other steel drum, or other 'instruments' #at the same time.]

some acoustic amps are made for a singing guitarist, so mic channel is for dynamic mics, no phantom power , or token, not adaquate powersupply. 48v is needed to run many condenser microphones well.

Old Tube amps are occasionally including old tube sockets too, travel #to jams with them and I couldnt rely on it working, new tubes or not.
rewiring all the tube sockets to fit new ones can be done,
just don't ask how much..standing ..

[Lee]

Think of the electric mandolin as different from an acoustic mandolin the same way you'd think a Fender Stratocaster is different than a Martin Dreadnaught.

String gauges, pick thickness, will both be lighter than on an acoustic.

Start out with a Fender Blues Junior amp or a Peavey Classic 30. Tubes are nice.

[jmcgann]

I use the same pick (1.5mm Dunlop 500 series Tortex) on electric mando and acoustic mando- for that matter, on Telecaster and dreadnought!

Tube amps are great for warmth and edge- you can roll off the highs and avoid the icepick-to-the-forehead tone that sends 'em running for the exits...

[JeffD]

Edsherry - I was looking at the Roland Micro Cube. Not because I checked out the sound (I am embarrassed to say), but because it looks easy to figure out, quite portable, and relatively affordable.

Mandroid - I have to tell you, I am afraid I did not understand your reply. As a friend of mine says, "I'm turning grey, and I used to be blonde." On top of that I have, on occation played a banjo. So you might have to splain me a little more.

[mandroid]

Ok, cut down version.
Roland's [more expensive than microcube] AC60 can run the best kinds of microphones
in one channel.

you can run your mandobird, or Strat, thru whatever effects pedals you wish, #in the other channel .

Pro level stuff... lots of connections to run with the big dogs... on the back.

[clem]

One pick--Wegen--for everything, guitars (electric & acoustic)and mandolins (electric & acoustic).

Unless you're going for a very clean jazz electric sound, one amp for both acoustic and elecric instruments won't be optimal...one or the other is going to suffer. If there isn't room (in the car, on the stage or in the budget), go with a small tube amp. Black face era Princeton Amp (non-reverb) are affordable and sound GREAT. Of course, black face Deluxe reverb or Princeton reverb is the gold standard for warm tube tone.

Good luck.

Clem

[JeffD]

That said, there are some "modeling" amps that do a decent job for both. #

What distinguishes a "modeling" amp - I was emailing a friend and I mentioned the Roland MicroCube and he replied, "You don't want that, its a modeling amp."

[EdSherry]

A "modeling amp" is an amp that tries (using digital technology) to reproduce the sound of other amps that are being "modeled." #Purists don't like them because they generally don't sound as good as the amps being modeled. #But they're versatile and much cheaper than having a "stable" of different amps. #

As with MAS, "AAS" (Amp Acquisition Syndrome) can be a curse. #I own both a MicroCube and a Fender CyberTwin, both modeling amps, along with a host of other lovely non-modeling amps. #I tend to use the CyberTwin for most of what I do with electric instruments these days.

IMHO, the nice thing about the MicroCube is that it is pretty cheap (about $125), portable (battery powered) has OK built-in effects (so you don't have to buy separate effects pedals) and has a decent (though not spectacular) "acoustic" setting, as well as the usual raft of "electric" amp models. #

Even if you decide to upgrade later (and you will if you stick with playing electric instruments), it makes a nice practice / portable amp.

I agree with other posters that small tube amps are great, but they're not as versatile. #(Of course, what they do, they do well.)#

Black face Princetons are getting up there in price these days (there's a non-original one on eBay now with a starting price of $500), but I agree they're nice amps.

[taboot]

Initially I was moved between different picks when playing acoustic and electric, but I found that I had a really hard time adjusting, particularly when switching back and forth a lot over the course of a gig. Now I use my Wegen for everything, the triangular TF 140 is my choice. For some reason I find the string tension transition to be a bit easier if the pick feel remains consistent.

[Perry]

Electric is a whole different game; personally I tend not to be as "picky" with picks on electric.....a Fender Heavy or Extra Heavy or something similar...on acoustic I
prefer a heavier picks but on electric thinner seem to work a bit better for me.

I have a 4 string Schwab and run it through some effects. (see other thread) I think a tube amp is the way to go for electric instruments unless you want that jazz sound then a solid state Polytone or similar will do the trick...

[Travis Wilson]

I would like to resurrect this thread as I am in the same kind of dilemma as the original poster.

Reading reviews and contemplating equipment, I have begun to appreciate the following: 1.) tube amps can be noisy/hissy and can require more maintenance when compared to their solid state counterparts. 2.) most guitar amps do not have much clean headroom as they are designed to "crunch" up at higher volumes. #3.) solid state amps can sound "boxy" or "tinny." 4.) I neither want nor need all of the effects that sometimes accompany these guitar-specific amps.

What are the thoughts about employing a reasonably powered keyboard amp? #There should be plenty of clean headroom. #The pitch and tonal range should be large. #I could modify the sound with a pedal to get a tube-amp like sound (Boss OD-1 or BD-2 perhaps) while at the same time retaining the versatility to plug in my Weber with its acoustic feather pickup.

Would this work?

[mandroid]

keyboard amp should be clean and offer a wide range.

If what you want is Not in a combo amp, perhaps a mixer and a [stereo?] tube power amp, and a PA speaker Or a big old HI FI speaker.

[Evan Mahoney]

I read these posts and found I do something no one else has posted doing. I have an acoustic and a hollow-bodied electric. My amp, the Crate Acoustic 125 is what I use to amp meself.

I plug the electric into the instrument input and level myself to what I like, gain and the such.

I also have the XLR input with it's own gain. It is for those guitar player who like to plug in a mic and sing, too. I run out of that input a D.I. where I can adjust my acoustic to what I want It to sound like before sending it in to the amp where I adjust gain and the such.

At this point, it is a matter of turning the gain down on one and up on the other when I need to switch. So far it has worked beautifully. The best situations are when I am able to do a Direct Line Out of the back of my amp straight to the sound board and then I don't have to crank my amp to be heard but level it to a monitor behind me, much like rehearsal.

I have a synth wah I love, steel drums sound like a grate idea, however.

[taboot]

Headroom is a by-product of how the preamp stage is configured (does it slam the signal into the power stage, or gently hand it over) and wattage. As a guitar friend of mine is fond of pointing out, the volume difference between a 50w amp and a 100w amp is only 3-4 db, but you'll be able to play at higher volumes with a clean sound on the higher wattage amp. For my money, Garcia had one of the best clean sounds you'll ever hear, and he was playing with thousands of watts of power. With a mandolin (even a five string) you should be able to get high volume clean sounds out of anything in the Fender tonal family 30 watts and up. To the hiss and noise: You may want someone to look at your amp to find hiss, and you may try "lifting" the ground by popping one of those two-prong converter dealies onto the end of your three-prong (grounded) power cord to defeat hum noise. Good luck!

Christian

[Lee]

be careful cutting the ground wire. I was playing my Schwab (which routes the strings ends to metal ferrules on the rear of the body) with bare feet and no shirt plugged into a vintage Ampeg tube amp and zapped myself rather well, leaving 5 round scorch marks on my tummy. Never again.

[Shelby Eicher]

For an acoustic/electric mandolin rig you'll a good preamp and a full range system(P.A., JBL eon10", acoustic amp, etc). For an electric mandolin they will sound best through a tube amp. The classics here are the Fender Princeton and Vibrolux. The black face versions are the most desirable.

[Lee]

The vintage amps are "classic", but there's lots of really great brand new tube amp builders out there. TopHat, Ben Fargen, Dr.Z, to name a few. The new ones are plenaty reliable for gigging. But be prepared to part with at least a grand.