Early loar recordings

**P Josey** · Oct-29-2006, 5:57am

Many times I hear mentioned the Loars have now had 80 years to develope that sound. I have the music set of Bill Monroe's music from 1936 to 1994. When listening to those recordings from the mid 40's, when his Loar was only 22-23 years old, to my ears it sounds every bit as good as the later recordings. I wonder if there are any earlier known recordings of Loar mandolins, when the mandolins are closer to new, and how did they sound.

**Steve Davis** · Oct-29-2006, 9:03am

I wonder if there are any recordings by Loar himself.

**cooper4205** · Oct-29-2006, 10:49am

did dave apollon play a loar for a while? if so, you could probably check some of his old recordings

**sunburst** · Oct-29-2006, 12:08pm

I'm glad somebody else has noticed that.
A Lester Flatt G-run had that boom of an "old" D-28 back in the fourtys when it was less than 20 years old.

I think too much of the sound of a great instrument is attributed to age sometimes. If Bill's mandolin and Lester's guitar hadn't been good instruments to start with, they wouldn't have sounded like they did on those old recordings.

**MandoSquirrel** · Oct-29-2006, 12:40pm

Originally Posted by (cooper4205 @ Oct. 29 2006, 11:49)

did dave apollon play a loar for a while? if so, you could probably check some of his old recordings

I think DA used whatever top of the line was at the moment, supplied direct from Gibson.

**PaulD** · Oct-29-2006, 12:53pm

There was a similar discussion about 1 year ago (give or take 6 months?). I did a few searches and didn't find it, but it talked about Apollon's early recordings and speculated what mando was played.

My ear isn't sophisticated enough to pick out the true tone of the instruments from those early tinny-sounding and sometimes crackly recordings. I like listening to them, I just can't make the comparison to the Hi-Fi and later era recordings.

pd

**Daniel Nestlerode** · Oct-29-2006, 1:00pm

If there are any recordings done on a Loar signed instrument, it'll take some digging to find them. #Until quite recently, the make and model of an instrument was not something noted on a recording or even logged in a recording session's records.

You'll need to find out who played a Loar, and what they recorded. #It's likely that the mandolin was played by a sideman of some kind, and as such it's also likely the session work was not credited. #

Keep in mind that by 1923, when Loar started his output for Gibson, that the mandolin was quickly dropping out of fashion in favor of louder instruments suited to big band Jazz, like the brasses. #If you go here, and do a keyword search for "mandolin" you'll get a list of recordings that do not have dates past 1919.

Daniel

**Rick Schmidlin** · Oct-29-2006, 1:14pm

Originally Posted by (cooper4205 @ Oct. 29 2006, 11:49)

did dave apollon play a loar for a while? if so, you could probably check some of his old recordings

I believe he owned two.I saw a short on TCM last week of his and he was playing one of them.I also think he was buried with them so nobody else could have them.

**danb** · Oct-29-2006, 2:34pm

Well this is an interesting question. I'd actually be quite surprised if Loar never recorded at all. It would be an interesting thing to do, to track all the unusual paperwork we've found that show bands or acts he was a part of. There are also other contemporaries I'd be interested to track down. My one and only ebay scam was a paid-for-but-not-shipped copy of a mandolin 78 by William Place Jr. I would suspect that somewhere out there there must be a recording of LL in one of his various ensembles

**Glassweb** · Oct-29-2006, 4:35pm

The Apollon CD set that Grisman released has some tracks with Dave A. undoubtedly playing a Loar - and a good sounding one at that. You'll be able to hear the difference between the Loar and the others...

**Jim Garber** · Oct-31-2006, 4:20pm

I think Butch's surmising lead to the aforementioned thread and the possibility that William Place Jr. was an early Loar player. You can hear one sound file on Butch's site here.

I have a 1921 Bacon Artist mandolin that had Place's signature on the label.

Jim

**Nolan** · Oct-31-2006, 5:57pm

Originally Posted by (Tone Monster @ Oct. 29 2006, 14:14)

Originally Posted by (cooper4205 @ Oct. 29 2006, 11:49)

did dave apollon play a loar for a while? if so, you could probably check some of his old recordings

I believe he owned two.I saw a short on TCM last week of his and he was playing one of them.I also think he was buried with them so nobody else could have them.

Where did you say he was buried?

**cooper4205** · Oct-31-2006, 6:19pm

i'll drive

**Philip Halcomb** · Oct-31-2006, 7:03pm

Originally Posted by (Glassweb @ Oct. 29 2006, 17:35)

The Apollon CD set that Grisman released has some tracks with Dave A. undoubtedly playing a Loar - and a good sounding one at that. You'll be able to hear the difference between the Loar and the others...

The other thing I heard about Dave Apollon that gave him some of his signature tone was (I'm sure Dan or Darryl could correct me if wrong) he put those aluminum saddles on some of his mandolins. To me that gives the mandolin a very distinct tone.

**Paul Hostetter** · Oct-31-2006, 7:16pm

Originally Posted by

A Lester Flatt G-run had that boom of an "old" D-28 back in the fourtys when it was less than 20 years old.

But his D-28 (the famous one he gave Marty Stuart) was built in 1950.

Before that he played a D-18, among others. With a thumbpick.

Originally Posted by

I think too much of the sound of a great instrument is attributed to age sometimes.

I'm sure with you there!

**f5loar** · Oct-31-2006, 10:20pm

True, ole Lester's old Martin was a 1950 but while he was a bluegrass boy in the 40's he did his G run on Bill's ole 30's herringbone as did all the bluegrass boys since Lester left up until Pete Rowan went and found it missing! I've only heard of one Apollon Loar that he kept up until the late 50's. Since then it's changed hands a few times and is still making sweet tones almost daily. It is possible Apollon did record with that Loar but my guess on listing to his old recordings is he recorded with the most recent one he had at the time it was recorded. He did prefer the aluminum bridge top and most all photos of his F5's throughout the years show it.

**mounmon** · Oct-31-2006, 10:31pm

The liner notes to the Acoustic Disc Dave Appollon set say "At his request, his very first mandolin, which he had kept through the years, was cremated with him." #Sorry guys, doesn't sound like there would be any Loars buried somewhere with his ashes.

**Daniel Nestlerode** · Nov-01-2006, 12:39pm

I've been thinking about why an early recording of a Loar would be desireable. There are many current recordings of Loars (anything by John Reischman or Mike Marshall for example) that are better quality (cleaner) than anything produced in the 30s.

This is not a rhetorical question: Paul (and others) why do you want to hear an old recording of a Loar?

Just curious,
Daniel

**f5loar** · Nov-01-2006, 3:23pm

Only to hear if they sounded as good then as they do now!

**bradeinhorn** · Nov-01-2006, 4:23pm

i agree. it seems a lot of the opening happens in the first couple years on most instruments i have owned.

**Daniel Nestlerode** · Nov-01-2006, 6:53pm

I figured as much. Well, if one is found, I'd be interested in hearing it too. I have a feeling that there would be too much difference in the condition and quality of recordings between a 30s era and a modern era recording to allow for an enlightening comparison. But, like I said, I'd be interested in hearing one. (I've been wrong before!)

If you find one before LoarFest West, bring it along. I'll be there!

Daniel