Bowlbacks of Note

**onthefiddle** · Feb-03-2005, 12:41pm

A nice Domenico Zanoni has come up for sale in Australia.
It features fluted ribs, and an attractive burr apron rib. Unfortunately the apron rib (predictably from the cut of the wood) has cracked.
More seriously it appears to be cracking across the grain on the cant, also some purfling is missing from the edge near the cant, and has been replaced with some type of filler. Hopefully there aren't any other makeshift repairs.
It has several other obvious problems but is an attractive higher end instrument and, if the reserve isn't too high, worthy of restoration to its certain former glory.

**pklima** · Feb-04-2005, 9:12am

Not a bowlback but a Howe mandolinetto with six hours to go... listed as a ukulele so it may end up affordable:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws....53&rd=1

**Plamen Ivanov** · Feb-04-2005, 9:44am

Welcome back, Peter!

Nice to see you!

**Jim Garber** · Feb-04-2005, 10:03am

Originally Posted by (pklima @ Feb. 04 2005, 10:12)

Howe mandolinetto

Oops! I had put a bid on this one just before I saw your posting. I have a feeling this may be snipe city when it finally sells tho. Even with the funky neck repair I imagine that it will go for over $400.

Jim

**pklima** · Feb-04-2005, 10:05am

Howdy! I'm still around, though I don't post much anymore. I may not have any "real" mandolins but I still play cello banjo and just set up an electric bass tuned in fifths (an octave below cello) and those are mandokin, though distant.

I just happened to run across the Howe while checking out the "competition" for an 8-string electric bass I'm selling. Hope it ends up in good hands and gets repaired properly...

**Jim Garber** · Feb-04-2005, 3:43pm

Originally Posted by (jgarber @ Feb. 04 2005, 11:03)

Even with the funky neck repair I imagine that it will go for over $400.

Hey, I was pretty close...$332.50... I still have the touch

Jim

**onthefiddle** · Feb-06-2005, 9:09am

The mid to late nineteenth century mandolin, that I recently posted pictures of in the Post a picture of your bowlback thread, has come up for auction on eBay UK.
I have a nearly identical instrument, though lacking its original pegs. I don't think you could really call this a true Baroque Neapolitan Mandolin - but it could be strung and played as one!

Jon

**Martin Jonas** · Feb-06-2005, 11:31am

Interesting one, Jon. Would this have been strung with gut or metal strings? The ones that are on now appear to be metal, for what that's worth. I'm tempted to get it (if cheap) and string it with nylon for some tonal variety.

Martin

**onthefiddle** · Feb-06-2005, 12:20pm

I'm not sure exactly what this would have been strung with originally, Martin. Pegs would seem rather impractical for all steel cored strings. The seller did mention to me that he had put these strings on some years ago - the pegs slipped immediately, and he gave up on it. I suppose those pegs saved the mandolin, though lost us a mandolinist!

I'm not sure when the older mixed stringing finally faded out. Certainly both types would have been used for some time after the introduction of steel cored strings.

The older stringing is described in some detail (by Ephraim Segermann?) on the Northern Renaissance Instruments site.

His handmade strings aren't cheap, though I'm sure they are good. Eugene mentioned Gamut Strings to me who are more reasonable. Kurschner make decent Baroque Violin strings, which are priced quite reasonably. They mention Mandolin on their website, but don't go into detail, so you would have to contact them - no problem for you and your multilingual skills though!

Good luck!

Jon

**Eugene** · Feb-07-2005, 9:59am

I string mine with the Gamut set which is a mixture of silver-wound silk, brass wire, and gut. Actually, I keep nylon on the e" strings for practice and routine use because gut just frays too quickly under the quill.

**onthefiddle** · Feb-08-2005, 1:34pm

I've had a thought regarding the unusual pegs of the 19th century Mandolin. I'll post it in the Post a picture of your bowlback thread as it seems more in keeping there, but as the instrument is up for auction now I thought I should mention it here.

Jon

**Jim Garber** · Feb-16-2005, 9:19am

Nice photos of a Paul Hums bowlback on this thread.

Jim

**Plamen Ivanov** · Feb-17-2005, 2:02am

A very typical and nice Puglisi here

**onthefiddle** · Feb-17-2005, 3:38am

Has anyone seen anything like this before?

It looks like someone has opened out the soundhole by cutting away the rose. It may have a violin style neck. The pegbox was obviously previously equipped with mechanical tuners.
I suppose it could be successfully restored if you knew what the missing rose looked like. The price seems optimistic though, unless I've missed this maker's name before.

Jon

**guitharsis** · Feb-17-2005, 6:37am

Ian's done it again. #Where does he find all of these nice mandolins?! #Love the Puglisi, but since I just got a de Meglio . . .

As nice as it is, my de Meglio does not have the original bridge and is missing the string downholder and the string guard as shown here: www.farnese.co.uk/Memo2.htm

Wasn't someone on ebay selling bridges that could be used on vintage bowlbacks?

Also, read in a cafe post that there were 10,000 1A de Meglio mandolins made. #Maybe there are some around that are beyond repairing but that could be used for parts?

Doreen

**onthefiddle** · Feb-17-2005, 7:37am

Hi Doreen!

If you do find another bridge for a de Meglio it will still need to be fitted to your instrument.

If neither of the bridges you have is suitable then you could consider making your own. I'm sure that other de Meglio owners here could supply you with photographs and measurements, and I would be happy to offer advice on carving and fitting it.
Be warned though that bridge fitting is a particularly fussy and frustrating thing to learn - you'll need buckets of patience.

I'm afraid that the sanding cheat that is often mentioned doesn't really work, and would be particularly unsuitable for bowlbacks with their canted soundboards.

If you don't want to attempt this yourself, and one of the bridges that you have is too high, you may well be able to have it properly fitted to your soundboard, and with the correct string heights, by a local luthier. Luthiers used to working on Mandolins, Violins and/or archtop Guitars should all be able to do this.

The downholder looks to be a fairly simple thing to make, though not being in the honoured ranks of de Meglio owners myself I couldn't help much more here.
What is the condition of the soundboard like where the downholder is missing? You may need to do some preparatory work before fitting a new one.
I seem to remember (Martin?) saying that he didn't feel that it made a great difference to the sound either, so perhaps it's not worth it. I can see the theory behind it, but the difference in pressure on the bridge would be fairly small unless it was tightened down considerably - and that could result in damage to the soundboard.
I'd be wary of doing any work in this area unless you know what you are doing.

A string guard would be very simple to make, suitable celluloid can be obtained from Luthiers suppliers. Of course it would lack the nice inlay.

Jon

**Martin Jonas** · Feb-17-2005, 8:04am

Slight caution on the Puglisi: the bridge is sitting behind the cant, at least a centimetre further back than the (visible) original footprint. That is reflected in the unusually long (for an Italian bowlback) scale length given by Ian and would presumably compromise intonation.

As for bridges, I had previously mentioned those sold by a German Ebay seller, "Franksmusic". I have one of his on my bouzouki, and it's great for that. However, they are very chunky and would look odd on your de Meglio unless whittled down substantially. My feeling is that you'll be better off working on the bridge you have (not the small one in the Ebay photos, but the additional one the seller included).

Martin

**guitharsis** · Feb-17-2005, 8:29am

Thanks, Jon and Martin!

I'll ask the luthier to see if he can work with the bridge that was included rather than the one that is on now and shown in the ebay photo.

Doreen

**Jim Garber** · Feb-17-2005, 9:46am

Originally Posted by (onthefiddle @ Feb. 17 2005, 04:38)

Has anyone seen anything like this before?

There was a mandolin by Uriani on ebay last fall. Rather plain on the front but nice alternate wood ribs with fluting. This does look like it was messed around esp that soundhole and would require retopping which would negate the value unless it was a bargain.

Jim

**onthefiddle** · Feb-17-2005, 10:56am

That's a much nicer example of his work Jim!

A new top wouldn't be strictly necessary on this instrument, though the work to restore the original soundboard would be long, difficult and very expensive! Still, I would go to greater lengths to save an original soundboard than any other part of an instrument.

I agree though, unless this is a particularly valuable instrument the cost of restoration will far outway its worth.

It's a pity that there is no rear view of the instrument given, both to see if it has a similair bowl to the example you have shown us, and to see if there are any indications as to whether that neck/pegbox is original. The pegbox is unusual in itself, and the neck seems somewhat slender.

Jon

**Plamen Ivanov** · Feb-17-2005, 1:44pm

Originally Posted by (martinjonas @ Feb. 17 2005, 09:04)

Slight caution on the Puglisi: the bridge is sitting behind the cant, at least a centimetre further back than the (visible) original footprint. #That is reflected in the unusually long (for an Italian bowlback) scale length given by Ian and would presumably compromise intonation.

Don`t think so. The "visible original footprint" seems to be too close to the hole, over the inlay, and not at the right place at all. I think it`s OK, where it is now.

Good luck!

**Martin Jonas** · Feb-17-2005, 5:14pm

You know Puglisi much better than me, and you're certainly right that given the position of the cant, and of the inlay, putting the bridge before the cant would mean it overlapping with the tail of the butterfly. That wouldn't seem right. However, the only bowls I've seen that were designed to have the bridge behind the cant were Vegas, and I wasn't aware of any Italian ones designed in that way. Is the bridge behind the cant on your Puglisi as well?

Martin

**onthefiddle** · Feb-18-2005, 4:38am

A question has been raised in the Builders/Repair section about a bowlback with a radiused fingerboard. I have asked him to post pictures of the instrument and given him a link to Alex's site. You can find the thread here.

Jon

**Alex Timmerman** · Feb-18-2005, 8:25am

Yes, pictures sure would help a lot!

Cheers,

Alex

**guitharsis** · Feb-19-2005, 6:45am

Beautiful mandolin, Alex!

The luthier I brought my de Meglio to has offered to try to replicate the bridge. He's very taken with the mandolin and has taken pictures of it and even called his dad over to see it.

Would anyone be willing to share dimensions of the de Meglio bridge?

Doreen