Bowlbacks of Note

[vic-victor]

Thanks for the compliments. It is a very nice instrument indeed. Got it from the guy in Moscow, whose grandfather (originally from St. Petersburg) used to play it. The instrument was very well looked after and came with lots of extras like the original case, Fissoma strings sets and old mother of pearl garment buttons, apparently for the repair of a couple of missing MOP bits here and there. They were wrapped in paper bits dating 1957. The strings were loose for storage, which prevented the instrumnent from deformation. Binding is metal (sliver?) and so are parts of scratchplate inlay and lining betwen the bowl ribs. The binding came loose in two spots where the main top brace is due to top shrinkage, I think, and this needs attention, though the intrument is playable as is. I am going to fix the problems first before activly playing the instrument though.

[brunello97]

Beautiful! Thanks for the extra photos Victor. I love this version of the butterfly scratchplate. The sleeve guard / tailpiece cover is lovely also. Nice background story.

Mick

[Martin Jonas]

Thanks for the compliments. It is a very nice instrument indeed. Got it from the guy in Moscow, whose grandfather (originally from St. Petersburg) used to play it. The instrument was very well looked after and came with lots of extras like the original case, Fissoma strings sets and old mother of pearl garment buttons, apparently for the repair of a couple of missing MOP bits here and there. They were wrapped in paper bits dating 1957. The strings were loose for storage, which prevented the instrumnent from deformation. Binding is metal (sliver?) and so are parts of scratchplate inlay and lining betwen the bowl ribs. The binding came loose in two spots where the main top brace is due to top shrinkage, I think, and this needs attention, though the intrument is playable as is. I am going to fix the problems first before activly playing the instrument though.

Very nice mandolin, Victor! I have a Giuseppe Vinaccia as well, but a much more modest model. One word of warning: when I got mine I also had some loose binding which I expected to be easy to fix but turned out to be a rather extensive repair. It wasn't actually the binding that was loose, but the binding channel had been cut too deep so that over the years the soundboard cracked along the edge of the binding channel in line with the binding. Photos of the problem and the repair are at luthier Jon Springall's homepage here.

Now that it's repaired, mine is a very nice instrument despite its lowkey looks. I'm also glad to see that your fretboard markers follow the same scheme that Jon and I decided on for my replacement fretboard (the fretboard on the instrument when I got it seemed non-original and wasn't playable).

Martin

[vic-victor]

Thanks, Martin. I have figured it out already. That's typical for late 19c instrument. Braces protrude through binding due to wood shrinkage. I had a chat to a luthier and he suggested the same thing. The top is ideally to be opened and braces trimmed and re-glued. Will have to do it in a due course.

[Tavy]

Very nice mandolin, Victor! I have a Giuseppe Vinaccia as well, but a much more modest model. One word of warning: when I got mine I also had some loose binding which I expected to be easy to fix but turned out to be a rather extensive repair. It wasn't actually the binding that was loose, but the binding channel had been cut too deep so that over the years the soundboard cracked along the edge of the binding channel in line with the binding. Photos of the problem and the repair are at luthier Jon Springall's homepage here.

It's a common problem - if the binding ledge is cut too deep then eventually the top just drops away from the sides - the way to tell is easy enough - with an inspection mirror inside, check for daylight showing round the edge of the binding. In bad cases the top looks like a piece of paper that's been perforated in preparartion of a "cut here" instruction!

[Bruce Clausen]

Just noticed this fancy Ermelinda Silvestri on the Corilon site, priced around $8000. I don't think we've seen this builder here in a while. Dave H. shows a much simpler Catania model on his site. Very extravagant description:

http://www.corilon.com/shop/en/item1371_7.html

It's typical of this dealer to say: "came to us in perfect condition, and we thoroughly restored it, so that it's now ready to play." Kinda makes you wonder what work it needed.

[vic-victor]

Given the low grade spruce used for a top it doesn't look like a fine instrument. More of a showpiece for display purposes, I think. Looks like Ermelinda's instruments were all made in Catania, she had a Rome address for a while, but I am guessing it was just a retail outlet for Catania-made products. And the asking price is totally out of reach with reality.

[Tavy]

And the asking price is totally out of reach with reality.

+1.

Sure is pretty though

Shame there's no image of the back - I would expect some finely scalloped ribs, and perhaps a TortoiseShell neck?

[derbex]

Umberto Ceccherini on ebay http://r.ebay.com/fS9Erw, bridge isn't original. I like mine.

[vic-victor]

Luigi Embergher Artistico No.8 "Sistema Ginislao Paris" from St. Petersburg Museum of Theatre and Music.

[Scot63]

Hi, I recently purchased what I think is a Sicillian late-nineteenth- or early-twentieth-century mandolin (thanks to Mick's identifying skills—no label on this one). Original thread is here: http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...wlback-on-ebay

I had a Jim Grainger and the fine folks at Custom Fretted Instruments near Sparta, TN (highly recommend them for turnaround time, low cost, love of interesting instruments) fix it up, so I'm now posting pictures. Work done: fret repair (lots of leveling, but original frets were in good shape), stabilized a seam in the front, reattached two ribs. The top has a little sinkage near the fretboard that Jim tells me is probably not worth messing with (you may be able to detect this in the closeup of the side of the fretboard). As a result the action gets pretty high farther down the fretboard, but definitely playable. It has a really shimmery sound (versus shrill) and that reassurring "pock," "pock," "pock" with every stroke. Have barely had to tune it since I picked it up on Saturday, even with new very light gauge strings. Very happy with resurrection! If anybody has more suggestions about what this might be, I would welcome them!

[vic-victor]

Your mandolin is likely to be made in Markneukirchen, Germany. Similar ones were marketed by Gebruder Schuster (Schuster Bros).

[Scot63]

Hi, Victor, the inlay is certainly distinctive and, in shape, almost exactly the same. Do you know where I might get more information about these mandolins? All I could find was a few quite complimentary sentences on Markneukirchen mandolins on David Hynds's mandolinluthier.com, as well as several examples of repaired "Italian-style" German bowlbacks.

[vic-victor]

Well, Markneukirchen was a major centre in Saxony for music instrument making. Those mandolins were mass-produced in thousands and though were reasonably inexpensive, the quality was good and the sellers often tried to pass them for Italian ones. Here is the cutting from 1908 Russian catalog adverizing them as "Mandolins of the Best Italian Makers". Jim Garber has a scan of later Gebr. Schuster catalog in his vast collectiion.

[brunello97]

Goldklang might be another possible MNK source--though I honestly don't know if they made their own or marketed other local mandolins.

Victor, I am on board with your 'probably German' estimation. I originally had steered Scot63 towards Catania because his is certainly not a Neapolitan made mandolin.

I only have a page or two from Schuster. Here's thinking Jim will have an exact match....

Mick

[vic-victor]

Yes, it is hard to be 100% certain. One thing for sure is that Germans copied Italian originals and Catania tried to be ahead by introducing new designs all the time. I've seen Puglisi the other day that had all the German features, including rosewood-maple-rosewood staves arrangement. So it worked the other way around, too. I guess the Goldklang and other large dealers were often doing what is called OEM in today's terms, and changed makers as they saw fit, (like we've seen in the 70-80's when many guitar makers switched from Japan to Korea and later to China keping brand the same), as long as it was viable commercially. And i guess there was no law at that time to state the place of origin on the label. Goldklang often had their name put on the top just the way Catania makers often did. Makes me wonder if they sourced all their stuff in Catania, given the connection in the catalogue? Who knows.

A couple of things to check for Scot. Sometimes Catania makers put their "Catania" stamp on the inner side of the top, so good idea to inspect the inside with the mirror and a littlle torch. Also inpect the tailpiece if there are any leads there. Catania-made cheap mandolins had often pretty rough woodwork inside and often Germans made it a bit neater.

[Scot63]

Thanks, Victor and Mick. Very interesting—I had no idea that the market was so global during this period. Except for the headstock, it looks a lot like the third in the 1908 catalog clipping. I'll definitely check the inner side of the top. Scot

[vic-victor]

Another unlabelled one from German ebay.

[DavidKOS]

Interesting leather tailpiece cover.

Or is that the tailpiece itself?

[vic-victor]

Looks more like a cover. I like it too.

[Scot63]

Victor, no obvious stamp on the inner side of the top; their appears to be some discoloration in the wood, but that's all. This new example is very similar, both in terms of the inlay and the ribs. Thanks!

[wlud]

A little entertaining humor from <a href="http://cgi.ebay.fr/TRES-BELLE-MANDOLINE-CARLO-FOVERI-LIGLIO-cotes-creuse_W0QQitemZ150168743849QQihZ005QQcateg
oryZ104485QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem" target="_blank">eBay France</a>. Is this a joke label? Or some way to cover a counterfeit mandolin.

Hi, I'm a newbie here, with quite a large collection of old mandolins and (mostly) French fancy marqueted Banjo-Mandolins.
I unearth this message to tell that I own one of the Carlo Foveri Liglio with this typo, and as far as my searches had led me, they appear to be an early version of the sticker, but no fake or rebrand..
Cheers,
Phil.

[Bob A]

Vinaccia sighted Down Under . . .

http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...-Vinaccia-1908

[fernando.f]

I started plucking a mandolin just a few days ago when I found a pretty old Neapolitan instrument by Domenico Zanoni for €150 (some $160), plus new strings -- I chose low tension D'Addario, but I am not sure it was the right choice...

Anyone ever heard about this luthier ?

Ciao and thank you for your reply !

[Hany Hayek]

I started plucking a mandolin just a few days ago when I found a pretty old Neapolitan instrument by Domenico Zanoni for €150 (some $160), plus new strings -- I chose low tension D'Addario, but I am not sure it was the right choice...

Anyone ever heard about this luthier ?

Ciao and thank you for your reply !

Her is a link to Dave Hynds website with Neapolitan makers:
http://www.mandolinluthier.com/neapo...phabetic-5.htm
You'll find a Domnico Zanoni mandolin.
You need very light strings, most people here use GHS A240, I use Martin M400,
if you are using D'addario, I would suggest J62.
I saw in an other post that you have problems the tuning machines.
Refer to this site. Everything I learned about bowl backs I learned from Dave Hynds site:
http://www.mandolinluthier.com/Htuner-repair.htm