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Thread: Bowlbacks of Note

  1. #5151
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Then again, Luigi did build the Cetra-Madami instruments which, if nothing else are certainly different from his usual fare. No accounting for (lack of) taste or odd f-holes.

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  2. #5152

    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Quote Originally Posted by etbarbaric View Post
    After all, the famous maker had labeled the instrument as being dedicated to his wife (or was it sister?)... who's name was apparently "Facibat Anno"... :-)
    That was his sister; his wife was Casus belli— a difficult woman, truth be told.

    Most interestingly, his brother was Nemo dat, who also affixed names (that weren't his) on various labels of instruments he didn't build himself.

    Cheers,

    Victor
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  3. #5153
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    And, of course, that very prolific composer. Anonymous.
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  4. #5154
    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Quote Originally Posted by vkioulaphides View Post
    I must, as a friend, also warn you that the appropriate Roman plectrum poses a dreadful choking hazard.
    A talent for trivializin' the momentous and complicatin' the obvious.

    The entire staff
    funny....

  5. #5155
    Mandolin tragic Graham McDonald's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    I'm the first to admit there is nothing, other than the label, which suggests Embergher in any way about this instrument. The back, of which I didn't take a picture, looked pretty standard, with fluted Brazilian rosewood ribs with light coloured spacers between each one.

    There are several Franciolini instruments in the Stearns collection and curator has noticed that they tend to have many of the added bits painted black and they don't fit very well. This one doesn't have anything like that. It looks like it has been built as a six course mandolin, for whatever reason!

    cheers

    graham

  6. #5156
    Full Grown and Cussin' brunello97's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Well to my eye the silly bottle-opener headstock finally looks at home on La Madami. The chicken bone f holes seem okay, but the scroll scratchplate seems very unfortunate. I've been much more impressed with Sig. Embergher's ear than his design eye. To each his own.

    As to the Stearns Collection, I agree with Graham that it would seem very odd to fake an Embergher before 1900. Who would one be fooling? A Vinaccia label, for instance, might have drawn water. What kind of rapscallion in Ann Arbor would do such a thing decades later ;-) I need to wander over there and have a look at this myself. Unbeknownst to me, one of my former students manages the collection. I needed a guy from Australia to clue me in to that......

    Mick
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  7. #5157
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Not to change the subject, but I just acquired yet another bowlback (who said,"...like potato chips"?). It is labelled Rohlfing Sons Music Company, Milwaukee, WIS. I have a string feeling that it is a product of the Larson workshop. I know that this brand is not mentioned anywhere as being connected to the Larsons, but the connection to Milwaukee and Maurer seems a little mopre than coincidental. Also I did find an example of a Maurer bowlback that has some very salient features matching those on the Rohlfing. I posted pictures in the Post a Picture thread.
    Jim

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  8. #5158
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Well... this is how much I don't feel like working tonight... I love a good mystery... :-)

    I found the catalog of the Stearns Collection on-line. The entry for this instrument seems basically accurate, but it doesn't add much. It is interesting to see them using the mandolino/mandoline lingo at this date.

    1058. Mandolino... Italy, Oval body. Purfled sound-board. Machine head. Three pairs of gut, and an equal number of over-spun silk strings. Twenty metal frets. One oval and two F sound-holes. V-shaped head. Length 61cm.; of body, 32cm; width, 21cm; depth 14cm. Signed -- "Luigi Embergher, Roma, 1890."

    *However*, I found an entry on the next page to be most priceless... made my whole day, in fact:

    1070. "Gibson" Mandoline.... United States. The instrument, with an oval body, back of polished dark wood, and belly of light-colored wood, has the characteristic mandoline neck, but the back is not vaulted. Typical mandoline stringing. The modern makers of guitars and mandolines have taken many hints from the early makers and are making many curious, but not always effective combinations.

    The catalog was published in 1918... but I suspect this was written somewhat earlier... :-)

    Best,

    Eric

    ps - Part of chasing this down is figuring out exactly when the "Embergher" instrument came into the collection. I am certainly no expert on this collection, but the preface to the catalog does mention that the collection was merged with instruments "secured by the Beal-Steere Expedition (1870-75)", and that the collection was moved in April 1914. It also (perhaps...) hints at some later additions to the collection...

    "There are a few gaps in certain classes, for the filling of which the generosity of those who are interested in the subject is confidently relied upon. This confidence is predicated on the fact that while the present installation was in progress [1914], several important accessions were received, and valuable contributions are constantly being made." (Page 6)

    It is hard to be sure from the language, but those "accessions" and "contributions" *could* be additional instruments (to those from Stearns) that "fill gaps" in the classes (of instruments). The overarching goal being to exhibit the most complete collection of instruments possible, and not necessarily the most perfect representation of what Mr. Stearns originally donated. Rampant speculation, but if so, additions are "constantly being made" right up to 1918. So I suppose it is at least *possible* that an instrument could have been added to the collection as late as 1918 (the date of the catalog's publication)... by which time Luigi's name was pretty well known and well... valuable. More rampant speculation, of course. Mick, maybe your former student can clarify the date when this beast was added to the collection, if there are records available that are earlier than the 1918 published catalog.
    "The effect is pretty at first... It is disquieting to find that there are nineteen people in England who can play the mandolin; and I sincerely hope the number may not increase."

    - George Bernard Shaw, Times of London, December 12, 1893

  9. #5159

    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Quote Originally Posted by etbarbaric View Post
    No disrespect intended... but if that's an Embergher, I'll eat my plectrum... :-)
    Don't worry, I know a master-chef here that can make almost anything eatable, hats, bugs, shoes, you name it! I'm sure I can get some advice from him. The contract doesn't say that you have to eat it raw or in one piece, does it? Will you post the eating on youtube? Maybe the mandolin world finally will be world-famous for something...

    Really hope that this turns out to be an Embergher... Can't wait!

  10. #5160
    Mandolin tragic Graham McDonald's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Eric Hartz, the curator of the collection, doesn't know all that much about lots of the collection. We checked the original records, what there are of them, and there is no real info about how or when Stearns acquired most of the instruments. He just handed them over as a job lot. Eric thinks the 1918 catalogue started to be put together about 1914, but there is nothingabout when most of the instruments were acquired. Maybe the more ethnographic instruments might have come from the Expedition in the 1870s and it might be worthwhile working out where they went, which might well explain one or more sections of the collection.

    I think Mick should go and have a look at the Emberger. I will PM Eric's phone number.

    cheers

    graham

    (now in Nashville after spending yesterday avoiding tornadoes. That was exciting )

  11. #5161
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    This poor Anastasios Stathopoulo mandolin went for a decent price, esp considering that it needs a fair amount of work. Anyone here score this one? I love that laminated neck he used on practically all his mandolins.
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    Jim

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  12. #5162

    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Iannis (Tsoulogiannis) might know, if anyone does. Indeed, laminated necks were almost a "standard feature" in the Greek mando-aesthetic, and were transferred from there to bouzoukis, etc. Greek folk-lutes (laouta) also have them, as a matter of course. Let's see what Iannis has to say...

    Cheers,

    Victor
    It is not man that lives but his work. (Ioannis Kapodistrias)

  13. #5163

    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Stathopoulos used laminated (mahogany and maple)necks in his mandolins, laouta,guitars and expensive bouzoukis.He was proud for that and he was writing that his instrument necks never bend.
    "Πολύπλεκτους χείρας"(Victor that is how he was describing them.)
    Mandolins from other greek makers(Moutzinos,Gombakis,I.Stathopoulos) from the same period of time do not have laminated necks.

    Bob Benedetto Book "Making an Archtop guitar" at page 205 has a picture of Frank Benedetto playing an Anastasios Stathopoulo mandolin.Amazing if someone considers that Frank influenced Bob as well as Epiphone

    Visit my blog and watch my latest bouzouki(six string)
    http://trixorda.blogspot.com/2010/10/blog-post.html

  14. #5164

    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Good to know. As usual, I was caught over-generalizing.

    Cheers,

    Victor
    It is not man that lives but his work. (Ioannis Kapodistrias)

  15. #5165
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    In any case, I do find Stathopoulos' mandolins interesting. He always seems to use that deMeglio-shaped scratchplate and laminated necks. Nice label too. I lowballed the bid. I don't need many more mandolins that need repairs.
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  16. #5166

    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    In my (meek) defense, Gianni, I got the instruments all mixed up: to wit, I think that laminated necks were first somewhat common on high-end laouta, and then transferred from those to high-end bouzoukia. In other words, I think that the lamination was used as reinforcement, specifically (and most critically) on long-necked instruments, to prevent warping (as you correctly point out). On a mandolin, such a technique would imply either an aesthetic indulgence, or an overabundance of caution.

    But you, of course, would know all these things far better than I do. I'm just happy to enjoy your instruments :-)

    Cheers,

    Victor
    It is not man that lives but his work. (Ioannis Kapodistrias)

  17. #5167
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Admittedly not a bowlback, here's a link to a thread about a lucky guy scoring a Calace violin.

    http://www.maestronet.com/forum/inde...owtopic=322553

  18. #5168
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    What is the buyer's background? On one hand it sounds like he is a violin dealer. However, where does the $25,000 valuation come from? yes, he did get a deal at $500 but I don't know that calace violins are worth all that much to real violin folks. Or maybe I am wrong...
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  19. #5169
    Registered User Bruce Clausen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    I'm more than a little skeptical. The buyer's smugness is exceeded only by his illiteracy. The instrument was appraised by a famous writer. The brother of the person now borrowing it once borrowed a Strad. One gets the feeling he's not a player, and is already trying to sell it.

  20. #5170

    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    "Say, can you spare a Strad for a day or two?" said Mark Twain to him; "Why, sure!" he replied, gladly. And history was made. Honestly ;-)

    There IS, however, entertainment-value in some of those postings, you've got to admit...

    Cheers,

    Victor
    It is not man that lives but his work. (Ioannis Kapodistrias)

  21. #5171
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    He compliments it's sound...and then says it needs a soundpost....hmmm....*scratches head*
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  22. #5172
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    the instrument was appraised by very respected British authority and famous writer Cyril Woodcock
    Cyril Woodcock is a respected violin writer, so i would not discount that part. However. I just checked maestronet.com's price history pages -- culled from auction results -- and the only Raffaele Calace (spelled wrong there) violin went for $9,000. There was a Giuseppe Calace violin that went for $4,255. Also, I am not sure where the buyer gets the 120 year old... the seller says 1900. Something a little odd here.

    Here is the quote from the eBay listing:
    An old violin I am listing for violin dealer/collector Dr. Ed Rich of Halls, TN. The body may be Italian but the neck is most likely German. The label reads: C. WOODCOCK LONDON This Violin ascribed to CALACE RAFFAELE NAPLES Date 1900 No. 11D.
    Measurements: Overall length about 23 7/8". Corpus 14 1/4". UB 6 13/16". MB 4 3\4". LB 8 3\8".
    No damages to the back, ribs, neck or scroll. Cracks on treble side and under chinrest. I see no soundpost or bassbar cracks.
    Some violins made by Calace or in his workshop look very much like the body of this violin. The instrument is playable, the cracks have been cleated in the traditional manner but the neck is not original so consider this as something for the repairer/restorer.
    Jim

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  23. #5173
    Registered User Bruce Clausen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Thanks for the additional info, Jim. Interesting to see the appraiser's name on the label. Buyer says hardly any wear, but the e-bay listing honestly describes repaired cracks and a new neck. Seller calls it a repair project, but the buyer has lent it to a player to use "till it sounds at it top potential". A long term loan then. As Victor says, there's entertainment value here.

  24. #5174
    Registered User Bruce Clausen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    I've just been following the Maestronet discussion for fun; lots of skepticism there too, but also lots more entertainment to be had, including these comments by the seller regarding the player who is now using the instrument.

    Shes an incredible player, she feels with an instrument of the Calaces quality or the old Goffriller???? violin i sold for $6000, she might be able to get a job with the Phil like her brother once did. I really think, If she decides to take it that far i might just likely give it to her for 1000 or let her make payments whats more important, friendship, love of music, or monetary gain,and sell it to her cheap or let her make payments. Its a big violin,14 1/4, with 13 3/16 scale and a deep sonourous viola tone, it may in fact be a 3/4 viola, If Lucille really wants or can get a Job with the LA phil. i dont think il1 ask for it back, after all its just one violin, $500, and ebay, you can't get greedy about making profit from youre best friends.

    Ouch! Not the sort of thing one wants one's friends posting.

  25. #5175

    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Now... if this fellow is in the business of selling, say, cellos by Matteo Goffriller for, oh... $6,000-or-so, I can think of a few thousand cellists worldwide who would like to talk to him. Mr. Baumann of the Berlin Philharmonic must also be understandably vexed, considering he paid ~somewhat~ above that figure for his Goffriller. Who knew?

    I am positive that they, too —and despite missing their soundposts— must sound splendid! ;-)

    Cheers,

    Victor
    It is not man that lives but his work. (Ioannis Kapodistrias)

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