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Thread: Bowlbacks of Note

  1. #5126
    Registered User Martin Jonas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    I would have thought that 1000 Euro for that Calace is a pretty good deal as long as the repair is straightforward. Unlike Mick, I'm not a big fan of the looks of that particular period in the Calace shop, but this is clearly not an entry-level instrument and it comes from the period when the Calace reputation was at its highest, with only Embergher as serious competitors at the time. It should be the equivalent of an Embergher No. 2 or 3 in value, and they tend to be rather more than 1000 Euro.

    At least the fancier of the Calace mandolins were high-end concert instruments at the time. I've posted a clip of Mario de Pietro on a similarly-appointed Calace in 1943 before in another thread. Here is the link again (you may have to click through an annoying ad first to get to the video):

    Link

    De Pietro's instrument is clearly a Calace and looks pretty similar to the one on Ebay, except that it has the strange individual "finger" fretboard extensions like the Classico has now.

    Martin

  2. #5127
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    The Calace in question is a pretty high-end instrument from a good period. While my tastes run to a less nouveau look, the instrument is of a quality to deserve considerably more than 1000 euro, IMO. Without going thru a pile of CDs, I think someone of note did a disc of Calace preludes using a Calace mandolin of very similar appearance.

  3. #5128
    Registered User Plamen Ivanov's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Right, Bob! I can think of at least two CDs - one by Gertrud Tröster and one by Elena Olenchyk. They both use a very similar Calace mandolin in their recordings (Calace preludes and some other original Calace works).

  4. #5129
    Full Grown and Cussin' brunello97's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Here's Gertrud with a Calace, though I'm not sure if this is the one Plami is referring to. I have always enjoyed most regional manifestations of what is sometimes generalized here as Art Nouveau. The Catalan version in architecture and interior design being my ultimate favorite. Don't get me wrong, I'm a dedicated Modernist (with a capital M) in my own life and work. The sublime sound and design of my Martin is closer to my heart.

    A question to Plami (and Victor, out there somewhere)? Were there local variants of the 'Art Nouveau' east of the Adriatic? I'm familiar with the Viennese and Prague manifestations, but know little of this era in SE Europe.

    Mick
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  5. #5130

    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Quote Originally Posted by brunello97 View Post
    A question to Plami (and Victor, out there somewhere)? Were there local variants of the 'Art Nouveau' east of the Adriatic? I'm familiar with the Viennese and Prague manifestations, but know little of this era in SE Europe.
    Quite frankly, I wouldn't trust my compatriots with ANYthing nouveau, unless formica-marquetry is to one's taste ;-)

    On the other hand, I did in fact once compose two Jugendstil songs (on Rilke) for a German-Swiss tenor. But I digress, both aesthetically and otherwise...

    OK, back to those loose ends that need my attention, pre-departure.

    Cheers,

    Victor
    It is not man that lives but his work. (Ioannis Kapodistrias)

  6. #5131
    Registered User Lou Giordano's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    What do you think about this one?

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...E:B:SS:US:1123

  7. #5132
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Quote Originally Posted by Lou Giordano View Post
    A little too glitzy for my taste. I like the well-made but stately looking, well playing instruments. The brand is a decent mid-range Italian tho. It might need a bunch of work, tho.
    Jim

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  8. #5133
    Registered User Lou Giordano's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Glitzy is the word. I was curious to see if it was a decent brand.

    Thanks

  9. #5134
    Registered User Plamen Ivanov's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Quote Originally Posted by brunello97 View Post
    Here's Gertrud with a Calace, though I'm not sure if this is the one Plami is referring to. I have always enjoyed most regional manifestations of what is sometimes generalized here as Art Nouveau. The Catalan version in architecture and interior design being my ultimate favorite. Don't get me wrong, I'm a dedicated Modernist (with a capital M) in my own life and work. The sublime sound and design of my Martin is closer to my heart.

    A question to Plami (and Victor, out there somewhere)? Were there local variants of the 'Art Nouveau' east of the Adriatic? I'm familiar with the Viennese and Prague manifestations, but know little of this era in SE Europe.

    Mick
    Hi Mick,

    This is exactly the CD i was talking about.

    While i'm aware of some architecture and fine art examples of "Art Nouveau" in Bulgaria in the beginning of XX. century, i'm afraid that i have to ask some professional musicians in order to find out whether the Jugendstil has also influenced the music and which are the composers representatives of that style. It may take a while, but if i find out something i will let you know.

    Best,
    Plamen

  10. #5135
    Full Grown and Cussin' brunello97's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Garber View Post
    A little too glitzy for my taste. I like the well-made but stately looking, well playing instruments. The brand is a decent mid-range Italian tho. It might need a bunch of work, tho.
    I do like these elaborate mariposa/farfalla pickguards. Marvelously weird tradition. I have never played a MOP fretboard but it kind of creeps me out in a fingernails-on-blackboard kind of way. They were popular out of Chicago as well, it seems. "Presentation Grade" I think was the term back then; which I also get a kick out of. Can you imagine President Barack 'presenting' a mandolin to Mme Sarkozy on the next state visit to France? Awesome.

    Mick
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  11. #5136
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    On a practical note, I believe that MOP fretboards are more difficult to refret or at least you have to be more careful not to chip the pearl.
    Jim

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  12. #5137

    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Quote Originally Posted by brunello97 View Post
    Can you imagine President Barack 'presenting' a mandolin to Mme Sarkozy on the next state visit to France? Awesome.
    Most elegantly appropriate, too, if I had any say on the matter ;-)

    Cheers,

    Victor
    It is not man that lives but his work. (Ioannis Kapodistrias)

  13. #5138
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Here's one certainly of interest: Double cutaway German bowlback, sort of Wappen bowlback.
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    Jim

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  14. #5139
    Registered User Margriet's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Garber View Post
    Here's one certainly of interest: Double cutaway German bowlback, sort of Wappen bowlback.
    Blllchch! it seems to be a well-made ugly mandolin. i did not know that such exists.

  15. #5140
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    "Blllchch" -- I did not know that I knew that word in Dutch.

    It is strange, tho I have seen other odd mandolins, not exactly graceful to me but not so ugly. Maybe it just needs a good home and love.
    Jim

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  16. #5141
    Registered User Margriet's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    You are right, right instrument on the right (loving and caring) place...
    Blllchch is just an onomatopee. ( if this is a right English word.)

  17. #5142

    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Quote Originally Posted by Margriet View Post
    ...(if this is a right English word.)
    For the record, it is a Greek word. Not "blllchch", the other one.

    It pains me (a bit) to see industry wasted on ugliness. But who am I to say? To invert this whole syllogism, perhaps I am even more saddened by good-looking, yet shoddily crafted instruments— plenty of those out there, too!

    Cheers,

    Victor
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  18. #5143
    Mandolin tragic Graham McDonald's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    OK, here's one for the brains trust. Just spent the day with mando type things in the Stearns Collection at the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor and found this one. It is a bowl back 12 string (6x2) mandolin with 21 fluted rosewood ribs. and these strange combination of soundholes. The ebony fret board is flat, but scolloped between the frets. It has a hand written label of 'Luigi Embergher, Roma 1890' as well as something which could well be COSTRUTTORE D' STRUMENTI ARMONICI, but handwritten and indistinct, that Alex T mentions on the Embergher site on labels from around that period. It is fitted with gut and (I think) wound over gut strings. The tuners are normal on the back, but the posts come through two plates attached to the front of the head. Might it be some strange double course Milanese/Lombardic mandolin or something I don't know about at all

    cheers

    graham

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  19. #5144
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Graham... glad to hear that you are in the US. That is one strange Embergher. Possibly one of the earliest. According to Leenen and Pratt the workshop opened in 1880 in Arpino but by 1890 moved to Roma. That bears little resemblance to other Emberghers even early ones. Maybe it was a one-off custom. Do you have additional photos?
    Jim

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  20. #5145
    Mandolin tragic Graham McDonald's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Here are the other pics I took of the Embergher. So many instruments, so little time, so it is not as well documented as it might be. One interesting thing is that it has an odd number of ribs and I thought that the Roman instruments usually had even numbers. Perhaps that was a later development. The scratchplate is leaf shaped, inlayed into the soundboard and looks like ebony with a greenish cast.

    cheers

    graham

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  21. #5146
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    No disrespect intended... but if that's an Embergher, I'll eat my plectrum... :-)

    Best,

    Eric
    "The effect is pretty at first... It is disquieting to find that there are nineteen people in England who can play the mandolin; and I sincerely hope the number may not increase."

    - George Bernard Shaw, Times of London, December 12, 1893

  22. #5147
    Mandolin tragic Graham McDonald's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    I make no claims about the instrument one way or the other. The label is handwritten and is dated 1890 which fits in with the time the Stearns collection was being acquired. The University of Michigan got the collection around 1900 (or a little after) when I could see no reason for anyone to want to fake an Emberger, though the collection have several quite obvious fakes that an imaginative Italian forger (who'se name escapes me at the moment) had conned Stearns into buying. I will send the pics onto Loresnzo Lippi when I get home and see if he can shed any light on the mystery.

    cheers

    graham

  23. #5148

    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Quote Originally Posted by etbarbaric View Post
    ... if that's an Embergher, I'll eat my plectrum... :-)
    While I share your skepticism, I must, as a friend, also warn you that the appropriate Roman plectrum poses a dreadful choking hazard.

    Cheers,

    Victor
    It is not man that lives but his work. (Ioannis Kapodistrias)

  24. #5149

    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Quote Originally Posted by vkioulaphides View Post
    While I share your skepticism, I must, as a friend, also warn you that the appropriate Roman plectrum poses a dreadful choking hazard.
    indeed ... before making a pledge like that it would do well to insert the plectrum in the rectum to check for size.

  25. #5150
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Hi Graham,

    I don't have an axe to grind either... just skeptical.

    As we know, labels in instruments are funny things. Stick in a prominent name and suddenly an instrument takes on new mystery and value. Labels are often wrong for all kinds of reasons... usually related to money. I will never forget the lady on "Antiques Roadshow" who was just sure her Stradivarius violin was genuine and priceless. After all, the famous maker had labeled the instrument as being dedicated to his wife (or was it sister?)... who's name was apparently "Facibat Anno"... :-)

    Regarding the Italian forger, are you perhaps thinking of Leopoldo Franciolini? He built a career around building faked antique instruments... and they often had very exotic and compelling labels with very early dates. For the most part his creations were completely unplayable... but they sure looked old. Many museums and collections were duped by his fakes, to their later embarrassment. Recent scholarship has revealed that he employed none other than 19th-century mandolin makers to build some of these fabrications.

    I'm just saying that we always have to look at the instrument to see if it fits with its claimed maker, geography, and time. I am fortunate to own an Embergher from 1899, and it looks nothing like this (the F-holes are *much* bigger... :-) :-) :-))

    Best,

    Eric

    ps - Speculating wildly, I suppose it is always possible that someone took the back and affixed label (perhaps broken) of a legitimate Embergher and added the other more whimsical bits. A good look at the back would help decide this, as would a good look at the label. Embergher's labels and signature are well known by authorities such as our Alex.
    "The effect is pretty at first... It is disquieting to find that there are nineteen people in England who can play the mandolin; and I sincerely hope the number may not increase."

    - George Bernard Shaw, Times of London, December 12, 1893

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