Bowlbacks of Note

[Martin Jonas]

That Washburn does look good in the photos, and the advantage with buying locally through Craigslist is that you can have a good detailed look yourself. Price is about OK if as described, I'd say -- roughly what I paid for a Ceccherini in similarly good condition.

Regarding the Embergher dragon, the "book" looks like music to me, and there's a laurel wreath around it. Is any of the celebrated Italian composers publically identified with a dragon? There may be an allegorical opera connection here, but what it might be escapes me. I also much prefer the plain scratchplate.

Martin

[brunello97]

Martin, Paolo Conte is the first name that comes to mind viz The Dragon:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59D5pvbyFS8

though the kazoo may be an acquired taste and not what Sig. Embergher had in mind at all. The Washburn does look very nice, and if even tacitly comped with a Ceccherini that is meaningful. I've only played more modest Washburns but they were good instruments. The price is serious, but it looks like a serious mandolin. Bowlback prices seem on the rise, so Bruce this might be a good thing given its pristine condition. Please let us know what you find.

Mick

[Bruce Clausen]

Thank you, Mick and Victor. I wouldn't be surprised if in fact an opera scene is evoked on the Embergher scratchplate. As far as the CL Washburn goes, I'm on the road now and won't be able to see it till next week. Fact is, I'll be somewhat relieved if someone else buys it. But if called upon I shall do my duty.

[vkioulaphides]

In the meanwhile, another Embergher has surfaced:

http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...942#post808942

It must be high season... ;-)

Cheers,

Victor

[mrmando]

Here are photos of said Embergher. Dated 1919, condition looks pretty good. Anyone care to take a stab at its value?

[Jim Garber]

Well, it is a style three and looks like it is in pretty good condition. Hard to tell anything from those dark photos. Non-original bridge and no tailpiece cover. My only concern would be if the neck needs some sort of reset... hard to tell from the photos. The bowl looks like it is in very good shape. If I just didn't buy my 1904 I would jump on this one, assuming it is in good shape.

Martin Stillion... where did you get these pictures. What happened to the OP?

[mrmando]

I got them from the OP...

[Jim Garber]

I figured as much. The main things to be concerned here are warpage on the top and neck angle. More and clearer pics always help. it might also help to know where the OP is located.

[Richard Walz]

My gosh, that looks like one of the Embergher's I had some years ago. Sold it to a student of Ali. It was (is) a nice instrument with a more finger friendly width to the neck.

[Jim Garber]

So, Richard... how was the fretboard replaced to make it wider? I would think one would have to widen the neck as well.

[Jim Garber]

Richard:
I checked my files and the only N.3 Embergher I have from you is one from 1920 with a maple bowl. Did you have another rosewood one before that?

[vkioulaphides]

What, uh... IS that bridge?!?

[Jim Garber]

What, uh... IS that bridge?!?

Looks like bone to me. However that other view -- the once look like they were taken with a cell phone -- it looks like a maple piece of wood and pretty roughly done. I don't think it was the same bridge. In either case, it is not an Embergher style bridge. Here is one on a 1923 No.3.

[mrmando]

More photos.

Appears to be one crack or very deep scratch in a rib, and another on the neck. The bridge does seem to be made of bone.

Pretty sure the OP is on the East Coast. I'll try to get a more precise location and suggest that he have it looked at.

[Tavy]

FYI, I seem to remember Jake Wildwood experimenting with an all bone bridge on a bowlback and found that it worked really very well. Of course it's hardly "original" in this case....

[Giannis Tsoulogiannis]

Mandolin after the work of 20th century(1900-1940) greek makers(Mourtzinos,I.G.Stathopoulos)
http://trixorda.blogspot.com/2010/06/blog-post_15.html

[Jim Garber]

Giannis: did you build that mandolin? Very beautiful.

[Giannis Tsoulogiannis]

Thank you Jim.It's my construction.This is my "greek" model.Right now i am working on a Roman Style- after the Lorenzo Lippi Embergher plans-but not an exact copy.

[vkioulaphides]

Bravo! Very, VERY beautiful! (I also appreciate the fact that you list all the materials on your site.)

May I ask: what did you do, as regards the construction of the top? (i.e. the soundboard) As you know, the more recent mandolin-builders in Greece have built their tops without a cant; I have always thought that this was because they were primarily bouzouki-builders, and that they "transposed" the techniques of building bouzoukis to mandolins, as well. (This, in contrast to the earlier builders, around the turn of the 19th/20th century, who built canted tops, in the Neapolitan tradition.)

I am told that some of the builders of "cantless" tops place braces underneath, so as to "induce" a certain, slight arch. Is that what you did? I ask because, without the three-dimensional object in my hands, it is hard for me to discern by looking at the images— beautiful as those might be. I'd be curious to know.

Cheers,

Victor

[Jim Garber]

Victor: You asked the question in my mind also!!

[Giannis Tsoulogiannis]

Thank you Victor! Probably i will upload a video in Youtube
I am not a bouzouki maker only, and i try to prepare and study every step in instrument making.
As i wrote on the site, i follow the Mourtzinos, Stathopoulos (I had the opportunity to study many of their instruments) tradition which is very very close in the Neapolitan Tradition.
The top is canted the traditional way. Some modern makers(in greece) don't do that, they think is completely unnecessary

[vkioulaphides]

Scary, isn't it? ;-) But you (Jim) and I were on this topic recently, vis-a-vis Greek mandolas. With the proportionately larger acreage of a mandola's top, I'm a ~tad~ anxious that there would be grave and irreparable sinkage before long. So, while I may have dreamed (I confess, I confess) of owning a bowlback mandola some day, I've held back, put off by said anxiety.

I am also friends with a violist member of the Greek National Opera, who had had the same gut reaction when he saw Greek mandolas with uncanted tops. "Won't those sink?", he asked, almost instinctively. So, I'd love to know.

Cheers,

Victor

[vkioulaphides]

As i wrote on the site, i follow the Mourtzinos, Stathopoulos (I had the opportunity to study many of their instruments) tradition which is very very close in the Neapolitan Tradition. The top is canted the traditional way. Some modern makers(in greece) don't do that, they think is completely unnecessary

Yes, considering you mention those luthiers as your "models", so to speak, I suspected that there is in fact a cant, however slight. That would be just right, according to tradition.

As for those who feel that the cant is "completely unnecessary", I have a four-letter word for them: s-i-n-k Absent the canted geometry, or sufficient and appropriate inner bracing to induce and arch, the top has but one way to go, under the pressure of the strings: downwards :-(

Thank you for your explanation, Gianni. Yes, I'd love to see (and hear) more of this lovely instrument you built.

Cheers,

Victor

[Giannis Tsoulogiannis]

Thank you Victor.The picture is not the right one to show the cant.Before it's travel to Cyprus i will take some more photos.
Thank you once more

[Jim Garber]

Interesting handful of mandolins (mostly) sold on the 16th at Bonhams auction house. Here are the ones that sold:

56 Mandolins
A Neapolitan Mandolin by Guiseppe Vinaccia 1892 (2) £552
57 Mandolins
A Neapolitan Mandolin by Carlo Rinaldi (1) £360
59 Mandolins
A Mandolin by Alfredo Albertini (2) £72
60 Mandolins
A Neapolitan Mandolin by Luigi Poppi, circa 1900 (1) £26
62 Mandolins
A Neapolitan Vinaccia Mandolin, 1895 (2) £672
63 Mandolins
An interesting Mandolin (1) £84
64 Mandolins
A A1 Mandolin by Gibson 1909 (2) £960
66 Mandolins
A Neapolitan Mandolin by Umberto Ceccherini circa 1890 (1) £300
67 Mandolins
A Neapolitan Mandolin by Fratelli Calace 1894 (1) £432

Among one that did not sell was a DeMeglio. Was anyone at that auction? Interesting that the plainer Vinaccia sold for more than the fancier one. Might be a matter of condition?