Bowlbacks of Note

[brunello97]

I don't think we took note of this Vinaccia. Price is getting up there with 5 hours+ to go.

Yes, tenaciously. This was bid up around $900 in about a minute and a half. It is hard to gauge the crack in the top. It certainly is long, and may be photographing worse than it actually is. The lighting on a couple shots make it seem like it has actually creased, but the soundhole doesn't seem distorted. The lead bidder seems to be from the continent, shrugging off our discussion of the euro/$ realignment.

Mick

[brunello97]

Ouch! Looks like it's been stepped on. Would any of us call that "a slight crack on the face"?

Eight photos of the case seems excessive.

BC

The case seems in better shape than the mandolin, Bruce. I don't think I've ever seen one of these leather 'holster' style cases with the straps intact.

Mick

[Jim Garber]

I could not tell from the photo but I would have to agree with Bruce. The last one recently went for (I think) $700 but might need a neck reset. This one is only slightly fancier with inlaid scratchplate and tacky/tacked on metal headstock ornament. Unless the bidder know something I don't.

[Jim Garber]

The case seems in better shape than the mandolin, Bruce. I don't think I've ever seen one of these leather 'holster' style cases with the straps intact.

"Clown shoe" is the proper technical term. :-)

[vkioulaphides]

Now, that's one, fine-looking mandolin-case, Jim!

Cheers,

Victor

[Bruce Clausen]

The case seems in better shape than the mandolin, Bruce. I don't think I've ever seen one of these leather 'holster' style cases with the straps intact.

Mick

Well, they're original, but broken. Mine (same case) looks like it got new straps in the 1950s or so.

Just noticed I had the honour to be the 5000th poster here. I read the whole thread a few months back, by the way. Truly fascinating, in a strange and somewhat worrying way. Many thanks to all the regular contributors.

[Strider]

Here`s my 1957 German made Bowl back for sale on ebay. ( Hope this not break the rules etc on here,if it does please delete )

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...T#ht_500wt_947

[Jim Garber]

A rather sloppy Embergherish copy.

[brunello97]

Jim, I'd seen this earlier today and after being the skeptic viz the 'Larson' thought I'd let someone more knowledgeable call this one out; (I have my own fauxEmbergher that I will be parting ways with soon.) However clunky some of the detailing may be it still appears to have taken some effort to get things 'wrong.' $1200 for a bad copy or $1950 for the real thing?

BTW did the dragon scratchplate ever come along with the slotted headstock on legitimate models?

Mick

[Jim Garber]

BTW did the dragon scratchplate ever come along with the slotted headstock on legitimate models.

Yes, on the style 4 orchestra but not with that plain bowl which resembles one of the student models.

[brunello97]

Despite some pointed questioning, the seller seems tenacious about his attribution. I guess it is worth the shot, hoping for a ringer, but I wonder if the seller might do better coming clean and selling it as a copy. I hope no-one winds up getting fooled.

Mick

[Jim Garber]

For your entertainment... Marco (I assume our friend from Roma) asked him point blank. I can certainly see the sellers points but not his expertise.

Q: Hi, how cn you say that this is an Embergher mandolin? There are no similar model in Embergher production. Is there embergher stamp at least on the neck (near the tuning machine)? Or is there his signature inside? Best regards Marco May-30-10
A: If you visit the Embergher website listed in the auction, and go to the "Instruments" link, then to "Mandolino per concertista e solista", you will see the identical soundhole inlay and pickguard shape. The inlay & engraving that appears on mine is not pictured, but they did, I'm sure, custom work if you had the $$. And, like most companies, only put representative pictures into the catalogs, while offering many variations upon the models. If you look at the "Mandolino per orchestra" models you will see the exact same headstock shape and design. The fingerboard inlay is also the same as many of the mandolins that are shown. As with all Emberghers, there is a slope downward from bass to treble on the nut, fingerboard, and bridge. This can be seen on the "History" link of the website, about halfway thru the page. Also, Embergher is responsible for the addition of the "zero fret", which this mandolin has. Also, as per the article, this neck has a sharp "v" neck, more-so than most instruments. The inside is lined with thin spruce strips perpendicular to the ribs, and they are coated with glue. So, any remnants of glue residue from a missing label are not visible to the naked eye. There is also a repaired, glue covered joint, so the label might have been removed before that repair was done? I have no way to know. So, while there are no identifying marks on the instrument, it has all the characteristics of an Embergher, and based upon all of the similarities to the mandolins pictured on the Embergher website, other reading I have done, and conversations with others in the musical instrument world, I'm calling it an Embergher. HTH... dk

[KristinEliza]

wow...

[vkioulaphides]

Rarely has the phrase caveat emptor been so perfectly apposite...

[Alex Timmerman]

Hi all,

Here is a link to another mis-understood and sad case of what once was a fine student type B mandolin...


http://cgi.ebay.de/Antike-Mandoline-...a#ht_500wt_947

Best, Alex

[Jim Garber]

Alex... do you mean the lopped off fretboard?

[Jim Garber]

I would say that this one is certainly a bowlback of note from William Petit's site.

I have attached a few of the photos of this instruments which has history as well. I think the pile of plectra would be worth the price which, I imagine, might be near the cost of a small car.

[vkioulaphides]

SPECTACULAR! (In rosewood, too... that strikes me as rare, although others may know better.)

When I come into possession of that seven-digit inheritance (bequeathed to me by my favorite, Unknown Uncle ;-) that's the instrument I'd like to have. If said estate is in only in the low seven digits, then I'd commission Hendrik or Sr. Lippi to make me one just like it, minus the vintage/rarity premium— adding up to the price of a smaller yet car ;-)

Cheers,

Victor

[Jim Garber]

It is funny, tho. The one thing I don't like about the Embergher aesthetic is the dragon. I prefer the plain scratchplate of the 5bis. I suppose that if someone gave it to me...

[vkioulaphides]

Dreadfully uncanonical... the Greek version should surely depict St. Michael Slaying the Dragon ;-) But, as you say, if someone actually gave it to me, I'd make an exception, just this once.

Wasn't it Ali who once said that Sr. Pecoraro put some other (floral?) design on the instrument he once built for her, thinking that dragons were inappropriate "for girls"? I recall something hilarious like that; the details escape me.

When you commission yours, Jim, you must request something sufficiently manly, yet less ferocious. An artistic abstraction, in layered marquetry, inspired by the splendid foliage of New York State, perhaps?

Too many ideas, too little money...

Cheers,

Victor

[Ali]

Yes - my 1985 Pecoraro had flowers on instead of the dragon as he knew it was for a young girl - I was mortified at the time - I wanted a Dragon! I got over it though and guess I ended up quite liking the flowers, though that mandolin never really quite made it into my heart and was replaced with Baby 3 years later.
Ali

[Margriet]

This reminds me an ebay advertisement of an Embergher 1924 Typo B and a Concerto nr 3, in the beginning of Mai. It seemed that somebody was selling a whole Embergher collection. There was this in the advertisement:
Da collezione mia privata vendo Mandolino Embergher del 1924 modello B in ottimissime condizioni come da foto, completo di custodia per collezionisti e musicisti. Il mandolino è visibile in Torino, è gradito anche il ritiro di persona. In asta c'è anche il modello n. 3 da concerto. Prossimamente metterò in asta il n. 4 dell'Embergher, il n. 5., il n. 5 bis e il n. 6.

So the seller had also a nr 6. Maybe it is the same, bought by William Petit, I think so....... Maybe not and it is still there. Anybody interested ?
I still have the name of the seller on eBay.

[Jim Garber]

What I find interesting about the dragon is that he or she seems to be either reading a book and holding some plant or flowers or else is singing and reading the music. Anyone know what the significance of this is?

[Bruce Clausen]

Looks like one of those dragons that get angry at everything they read.

Bringing things down to a much lower level, I see a nice looking Washburn on Craigslist in Vancouver:

http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/rd...779036228.html

From photos and a catalogue page posted somewhere around here, I take it this is model 235. Anyone here have impressions of that model? He wants real money, but if the condition is as stated it doesn't seem excessive. I'll be trying to get a look at it.

[vkioulaphides]

Looks like one of those dragons that get angry at everything they read.

I fully and totally empathize; just about everything I read (in the news, that is) infuriates me. I just withhold breathing fire for reasons of civility.

Nice Washburn, though.

Cheers,

Victor