Bowlbacks of Note

**Jim Garber** · Mar-31-2008, 6:37am

Originally Posted by (martinjonas @ Mar. 25 2008, 08:58)

Well, we've seen a lot of strange designs, but I don't think I've ever seen a square soundhole. Seller doesn't mention the maker's name, but I can make out "Catania" and "Sicilia" on the brand stamp. Outlandish scratchplate motif, too: woman on balcony with peacock.

Martin

That one has one of those oddball metal(?) bridges. Martin, you have a good memory. Where have we seen that bridge before?

**trebleclef528** · Apr-02-2008, 10:37am

Not very often you see one of <a href="http://cgi.ebay.it/Mandolino-depoca-LIRA-anno-1896-Affarone-ENTRA_W0QQitemZ230238453803QQihZ013QQcategoryZ359
QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem" target="_blank">these</a> calaces on ebay. And <a href="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Antique-Bowl-back-Mandolin-De-Meglio-Napoli-Mandolino_W0QQitemZ120241532577QQihZ002QQcateg
oryZ10179QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem" target="_blank">this</a> De meglio looks absolutely yummy!

**Arto** · Apr-02-2008, 12:13pm

"And this De meglio looks absolutely yummy!"

Well... shipping to UK £12, shipping anywhere else (including Ireland, for example) £140?!

**Matt Vuksinich** · Apr-02-2008, 12:37pm

I was fortunate to have bought a similar Calace mandolira last year--tho for a considerably lower price (much as I love it, I don't think it's truly worth the starting bid of 6000 euros--compared to other high quality Calace simple bowlbacks of similar vintage--tho I was probably incredibly lucky--I searched for one of these for several years before mine fortuitously appeared at a local dealer). This was the instrument model played onstage by Lorenzo Andrini, who I believe was one of the two greatest American mandolinists of the 20th century (Apollon being the other--I understand that during the 60s, each had simultaneous ongoing shows in Las Vegas, one at the Flamingo, the other at the Sands. Wisdom of their contemporaries, since deceased, was that Apollon had better left hand technique, but nobody rivaled Andrini's right hand!). This IS, though, a marvelous instrument, my favorite of all my bowlbacks from the Big 3 (Calace, Vinaccia, and Embergher). I've seen comments that it "looks silly"--which perhaps it does?--but the sound and playability are superb. The "horns" of the lyre, I think, don't really provide sonic enhancement, but act as support for the rods to the neck, enabling a longer fingerboard before the neck meets the body.

My apologies for gushing on so, but this IS a truly marvelous instrument (I don't know about this specific one, but 2 of the 4 I've played [Lorenzo's and mine] were fantastic, superior in all ways to the Turturro (which was similar to the other 2 Calace mandolire I played), who was the other contemporary maker of mandoliras during that epoch--I think Greg Miner's site has some info on those).

In summary: I'd suspect that this is a GREAT instrument, but also suspect that the appropriate price range is more similar to the Gibson A2Z of $4-6K, depending.

**billkilpatrick** · Apr-03-2008, 5:14am

Originally Posted by (mattrat @ April 02 2008, 13:37)

I was fortunate to have bought a similar Calace mandolira last year--tho for a considerably lower price (much as I love it, I don't think it's truly worth the starting bid of 6000 euros--compared to other high quality Calace simple bowlbacks of similar vintage--tho I was probably incredibly lucky--I searched for one of these for several years before mine fortuitously appeared at a local dealer). This was the instrument model played onstage by Lorenzo Andrini, who I believe was one of the two greatest American mandolinists of the 20th century (Apollon being the other--I understand that during the 60s, each had simultaneous ongoing shows in Las Vegas, one at the Flamingo, the other at the Sands. Wisdom of their contemporaries, since deceased, was that Apollon had better left hand technique, but nobody rivaled Andrini's right hand!). This IS, though, a marvelous instrument, my favorite of all my bowlbacks from the Big 3 (Calace, Vinaccia, and Embergher). I've seen comments that it "looks silly"--which perhaps it does?--but the sound and playability are superb. The "horns" of the lyre, I think, don't really provide sonic enhancement, but act as support for the rods to the neck, enabling a longer fingerboard before the neck meets the body.

My apologies for gushing on so, but this IS a truly marvelous instrument (I don't know about this specific one, but 2 of the 4 I've played [Lorenzo's and mine] were fantastic, superior in all ways to the Turturro (which was similar to the other 2 Calace mandolire I played), who was the other contemporary maker of mandoliras during that epoch--I think Greg Miner's site has some info on those).

In summary: I'd suspect that this is a GREAT instrument, but also suspect that the appropriate price range is more similar to the Gibson A2Z of $4-6K, depending.

here's a deviant "f" mandolin with a more subdued lyra motif ... removed gingerly from ebay france with all but the tip of forefinger arched well-away from the keyboard.

i'm not as all-embracing as you, mattrat - both fall in the "instruments i'll probably never want" category - but would a sound sample be possible?

saluti - bill

**Martin Jonas** · Apr-04-2008, 5:10am

Ceccherini on Ebay UK. Looks in reasonably good shape. That tailpiece cover is non-original and should be taken off.

Obfuscation in advertising clearly isn't a modern invention: this Gandolfi has a label saying "Sistema de Meglio", but I really can't see even the slightest similarity to a de Meglio in the design.

No-name mandola with rather Tsai-like fretboard inlays -- I wonder whether this is original or whether it has had a Vietnamese make-over?

On to more bizarre matters: Fancy a degree certificate to hang on your wall?

Not sure whether I'll call this one a bowlback, but it definitely is Bill's dream mandolin: the missing link between mandolins and charango. I didn't know armadillos came in this size!

Martin

**trebleclef528** · Apr-04-2008, 3:39pm

Originally Posted by (martinjonas @ April 04 2008, 06:10)

Obfuscation in advertising clearly isn't a modern invention: this Gandolfi has a label saying "Sistema de Meglio", but I really can't see even the slightest similarity to a de Meglio in the design.

I've seen a few of these in the past where the term "Sistema de Meglio" is used and asked one of my Italian "contacts" about it last year.
He says it doesn't necessarly mean it's in the same style of design (ie the typical De meglio features on the outside), but that the same (technical) system/method of building is used. He said it's a term that was often used by apprentices of builders and he's seen a couple marked Sistema Stridenti (for example).

Don't know if all that makes sense but it sounds logical (having said that i don't think Gandolfi was from the De Meglio camp

**Jim Garber** · Apr-04-2008, 4:05pm

Nicola Swinburne now has her Adelstein Vinaccia Liuto on eBay.

**Neil Gladd** · Apr-04-2008, 4:44pm

Originally Posted by (jgarber @ April 04 2008, 17:05)

Nicola Swinburne now has her Adelstein Vinaccia Liuto on eBay.

Yikes. That is about the 3rd time that instrument has been sold since I have been aware of it over the years. And I still can't afford it.

**Woody Turner** · Apr-04-2008, 4:55pm

"Nicola Swinburne now has her Adelstein Vinaccia Liuto on eBay."

Yes, this one looks enticingly familiar. Why hasn't it been snapped up given the sterling pedigree? Do the successive reappearances on the market suggest mechanical issues or player dissatisfaction? How risky would it be for a purchaser (say on the East Coast) to buy this one sight unseen and sound unheard? What would be a reasonable bid?

**Woody Turner** · Apr-04-2008, 8:11pm

"...sound unheard"

Actually, there are two sound clips on Nicola Swinburne's Web site.

**Jim Garber** · Apr-04-2008, 10:54pm

Originally Posted by (ngladd @ April 04 2008, 17:44)

Originally Posted by (jgarber @ April 04 2008, 17:05)

Nicola Swinburne now has her Adelstein Vinaccia Liuto on eBay.

Yikes. That is about the 3rd time that instrument has been sold since I have been aware of it over the years. And I still can't afford it.

Actually this one is dated 1905 on both labels and I have another set of photos with labels dated 1904. So are there two of these out there?

**Jim Garber** · Apr-06-2008, 8:37am

I checked and the 1904 liuto is on the gallery page for Spruce Tree Music in Madison, WI:

Originally Posted by

Vinaccia Brothers Liuto Moderno 1904
Large size instrument by the originators of the Neapolitan style mandolin, 23 curly maple ribs, rosewood neck and fingerboard, 22 1/2" scale, five double courses tuned C-G-D-A-E one octave below the mandolin. This instrument was made for Samuel Adelstein of San Francisco, an important figure in the history of the mandolin orchestra. Shown next to standard bowl style mandolin.

I wonder who has it now.

**trebleclef528** · Apr-06-2008, 2:13pm

vintage bowlback alto mandolin<a href="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Antique-italian-Alto-mandolin-mandolino-master-piece_W0QQitemZ260227818110QQihZ016QQcatego
ryZ10179QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem" target="_blank">on ebay germany</a>.. as far as i know a very rare instrument nowadays, being sold by "Stringwalker1"

**CraigF** · Apr-10-2008, 9:19pm

Here is a <a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/Nice-Musikalia-Bowlback-Bowl-Back-Italian-Mandola_W0QQitemZ140222195039QQihZ004QQcategoryZ
10179QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem" target="_blank">Mandola</a>. Scale is 16 3/4", so I would guess it's an Alto (CGDA).

**Jim Garber** · Apr-11-2008, 7:30am

Originally Posted by (trebleclef528 @ April 06 2008, 15:13)

vintage bowlback alto mandolin<a href="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Antique-italian-Alto-mandolin-mandolino-master-piece_W0QQitemZ260227818110QQihZ016QQcatego

ryZ10179QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem" target="_blank">on ebay germany</a>.. as far as i know a very rare instrument nowadays, being sold by "Stringwalker1"

Strange back pattern... it looks like the woods are different woods but maybe it is just the lighting?

**vkioulaphides** · Apr-11-2008, 7:57am

Regarding the mandola above, one should of course compare pricing with that of the new instrument currently produced and sold by Musikalia itself. My own --and serious-- concern is whether this instrument is correctly intonated; others by Musikalia, alas, are not.

But I try to resist MlaAS altogether...

**vkioulaphides** · Apr-11-2008, 8:00am

To wit: look under Mandolas.

Sky-high euro, dubious intonation... dunno.

**vkioulaphides** · Apr-11-2008, 8:47am

Has <a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/MANDOLIN-TWO-FOR-ONE-VINACCIA-SCHUTZ-MAKERS-OLD_W0QQitemZ380015448889QQihZ025QQcategoryZ10
179QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem" target="_blank">this</a> come around before? I suppose it would go under the "Handy-Man Special" category... I am in no position to verify authenticity-- of the Vinaccia, that is, not the Schutz.

Still, if it IS a Vinaccia, and a talented luthier/repairman among us can snap it up for a couple of hundred dollars, it might be a worthwhile project. Once resurrected, it might be worth ten times that. Or, better yet, be a lovely sounding instrument.

I yield the floor to the pricing experts (Jim, you there?), authenticity experts (Alex?), and all our expert builders and restorers of fine mandolins.

Cheers,

Victor

**billkilpatrick** · Apr-11-2008, 2:01pm

interesting mandolin on italian ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.it/Nord-It....9299354

**Martin Jonas** · Apr-11-2008, 6:00pm

Originally Posted by (vkioulaphides @ April 11 2008, 09:47)

Still, if it IS a Vinaccia, and a talented luthier/repairman among us can snap it up for a couple of hundred dollars, it might be a worthwhile project. Once resurrected, it might be worth ten times that. Or, better yet, be a lovely sounding instrument.

Other than the missing pickguard, the Vinaccia doesn't actually look in all that bad condition. I suspect it'll still go for over $500.

Martin

**Jim Garber** · Apr-12-2008, 8:55am

Interesting bowlback mandola by Michael Iucci in the "Looking for..." section.

**Martin Jonas** · Apr-14-2008, 4:56am

Here is a very nice-looking Herwiga Solist -- pretty much the cream of the old German mandolin makers.

Very definitely "of note": this wonderful 1895 Luigi Salsedo, with fluted rosewood ribs. Looks to be pretty immaculate, with charming hard case.

Rather rare: a 1957 Embergher Tipo A (well, Pecoraro, I guess).

This German bowlback was supposedly built as recently as 1980, and has one of those weird metal bridges Jim has mentioned a couple of weeks ago.

Martin

**Martin Jonas** · Apr-14-2008, 8:01am

Originally Posted by (martinjonas @ April 04 2008, 06:10)

Ceccherini on Ebay UK. #Looks in reasonably good shape. #That tailpiece cover is non-original and should be taken off.

Everybody asleep out there? The Ceccherini went for the starting (and only) bid of 60 Pounds ($120)! There have been a few undervalued Ceccherinis before, but this is absurd.

Martin

**brunello97** · Apr-14-2008, 9:14am

Ouch. Somebody got a great deal. April is crunch time for me, what with the 15th and end-o-semester project reviews. It does seem like nice deals often float by this time of year. I'm looking forward to May 1.

Mick