Bowlbacks of Note

**Eugene** · Jan-20-2008, 9:09pm

Pas mois!

**RSW** · Jan-21-2008, 1:35am

Congratulation Ali on the new 'vinny copy', although it's a bit extreme on the tatoo work (inlays), I'm sure the glue will hold fast and you won't be needing to carefully sweep the floor after a big concert. I do wish that you'd give the 'historical' stringing more of a go, the whole point of that instrument is this type of sound and, I doubt that 'modern style wound lute strings from Pyramid' would have been available at the time. I've never had troubles with the plain brass A, the twisted D takes some time to understand (tame) but it's worth the trouble. NRI makes these strings but so does Dan Larson and the plain brass strings can be purchased in spools from the harpsichord string suppliers. More complicated though is getting the quill just right. I succeed in one out of 10 and usually lose 1 out of 2 if touring

**Eugene** · Jan-21-2008, 3:48am

I buy coils of brass from a local harpsichord maker because of the fragility of the a' strings. Regarding quills, I've taken to fabricating them of translucent Bic pens. I get more consistent results from them than from geese.

**RSW** · Jan-21-2008, 4:27am

You're up late (or very early

Eugene... nice shaping of the BIC pen, a quill of sorts but will it ever develop that wonderful 'barbe' (beard) that real quills develop with use and give it that extra bit of sweetness to the tone?

**Eugene** · Jan-21-2008, 8:39am

Fell asleep on the ol' couch (as I do too often) and a quick check of the Cafe before it was off to bed proper. Up proper now, it's a vacation day here (MLK), and I have nothing on the calendar to occupy my time today. Mrs. Eugene will be lucky if I even bother dressing myself!

The Bic plastic is a little odd. It's a little soft and retains file flash for a while, but no, it's not quite "beard"-like. I know the old ones liked the "beard"; however, when I use real quill, the beard tends to appear just before the quill starts cracking across the fibers or splitting along them.

**Ali** · Jan-21-2008, 10:04am

Hi Richard - how do you know I haven't given it "more of a go".....I have - a lot of a go and used plain brass A's for ages on Vinny #- quite like them but am now giving plain gut A's a go - quite like them too. CAN't STAND the sound of twisted brass. YUCK! Have tried - lots...also very unhappy with the sound of octaves on low G course.....and I didn't say I was using Pyramid lute strings, though I have in the past....said I was using Aquila wound lute srings....more authentic apparently......I love it that something one person wrote became "bible" for ever more.......how weird.....now, if we had 12 people's writings on the matter from the era and they all agreed I might take a little more notice......
And I do use quill, as you well know beacuse it was you who kindly put me onto American wild turkey quill....though currently trying out Capercaillie (Scottish wild turkey!).

**brunello97** · Jan-21-2008, 10:31am

Ali,

There are a couple of species of American Wild Turkey, the one on the right probably more available in Finnish bars (and perhaps certain saunas.) A certain 'beard' no doubt results after frequent use.

And the choice extends to Scotch? (....I mean Scots turkey.) I didn't know turkeys were indigenous outside the US. It seems Ben Franklin has been deceiving us.

Mick

**Eugene** · Jan-21-2008, 11:31am

It's odd how prescriptive the early-music movement can be at times. #It can get downright contentious amongst guitarists/lutenists. #I don't doubt that somebody someplace strung their Neapolitan mandolins a bit differently in the late 1700s, but the prescriptions of Fouchetti and Correte, as far as I know, are all that's come down to us. #It took me a while to acclimate, but I really like the stringing (especially the octave g'-g) for the solos of the era by the likes of Leone, etc; it really fleshes out those relatively narrow voiced solos. #That said, I truly enjoy hearing Capucci, Frati, Galfetti, Lichtenberg, Schneider, Zigiotti, etc. who do not use the octave g course...just as I truly enjoy hearing Richard's fine release on Globe Records and Bazin's on AGL that do. #Whatever works, enjoy.

**RSW** · Jan-21-2008, 11:32am

Oh my, didn't mean to raise any feathers (sorry, couldn't resist), but this topic needs further ageing though probably not here (this is the place to create envy and admiration and pure love of all those round back mando creations). So, not to let the intoxicating thirst for more wild debate on the merits of historical versus practical stringing go unquenched, lets meet on a new thread...

**brunello97** · Jan-21-2008, 9:24pm

Speaking of feathers, here is an interestingly adorned Italian bowl found on the ebay.fr site:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws....&ih=010

That went for quite a bit of rooster feed.

Cincirinella aveva un gallo
tutta la notte ci andava a cavallo....

goes the song, but I've never come across such a label. (Note the coincidental address.)

Mick

**Jim Garber** · Jan-21-2008, 9:37pm

Mick:
I have another one of those in my jpeg files, better condition but also with fluted bowl. I wonder if the maker used that name in honor of his street.

**Keith Miller** · Jan-21-2008, 9:41pm

not a mandolin but looks like an original Roman pick found in an Emberger case !
<a href="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/very-old-mandolin-TS-pick-from-Embergher-case-mandoline_W0QQitemZ180208232977QQihZ008QQcat
egoryZ10179QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem" target="_blank">http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/very-ol....iewItem</a>

**vkioulaphides** · Jan-22-2008, 6:41am

Originally Posted by

"Cincirinella aveva un gallo
tutta la notte ci andava a cavallo..."

Thaaaaaaaaaaat's it! I am calling the Morality Police A.S.A.P.— 'ere the cock croweth, as it were (to use the evangelical phrase, if I may).

Have a good morning, friends!

Cheers,

Victor

**brunello97** · Jan-22-2008, 8:37am

Ah, Victor, you SHOCK me. I'm used to looking for the double-entendre in Cuban songs. (And Italian paintings.)

But a simple child's song now forever tainted with allusions to a 'midnight rodeo'.

(I suppose the door is thrown open to its appropriation as a bluegrass number.)

thanks for the wake-up call.

Mick

**Jim Garber** · Jan-22-2008, 9:41am

Originally Posted by (Keith @ Jan. 21 2008, 22:41)

not a mandolin but looks like an original Roman pick found in an Emberger case !
<a href="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/very-old-mandolin-TS-pick-from-Embergher-case-mandoline_W0QQitemZ180208232977QQihZ008QQcat

egoryZ10179QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem" target="_blank">http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/very-ol....iewItem</a>

Not quite a Roman pick but an elongated teardrop shape.

**vkioulaphides** · Jan-22-2008, 10:43am

Ah, Mick, NEVER trust (ostensibly) children's songs, like "Mama, yo quiero"! #

What DID you think the Cincirinella song was about?

Back to our regular programming: it is telling of the current Embergher-o-mania that the seller of an otherwise unimpressive, non-Roman/Ranieri pick, is convinced it is so all the same, and is eager to sell it for top dollar on eBay.

More substantively than such hapless sales, I look forward to the discovery/development of some non-TS material that might be used for the broader production of decent-quality Ranieri picks.

In the meanwhile, I use mine veeeeeeeeeeery sparingly. #

**Bob A** · Jan-22-2008, 11:41am

Groucho's tale of fast women and fast horses, and the men who ride them, seems to have near-universal application. Considerations of morality aside, we must be grateful for a phenomenon that has brought many of us into being.

**brunello97** · Jan-22-2008, 4:48pm

Victor, I'm just a simple man from Texas, which my lovely wife (from The Continent) keeps reminding me.

So now what am I to make of:

"I'm a cowboy who never saw a cow
Never roped a steer cause I don't know how
and I sure ain't a fixin to learn it now.
Yippee i oh ki-ay!"

She always does have to explain the movies to me as well.

But....on another note:

Here is a charming Puglisi (per la tasca, I presume):

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws....&ih=009

I'm tossing in a few bids, ma non posso comprarlo subito.

I really enjoy seeing their work. It often reveals a real creative abandon. I know some of it might be a bit garish, and perhaps not up to the quality of their mainland pace-setters. But they rarely overdo the bling concentrating on form, lines and color. Very -Italian- in the 20c design terms if I can venture such an appreciative stereotype.

I'm going to have to look closer at the label, though, to see what allusions I have been missing.

Mick

**Martin Jonas** · Jan-22-2008, 5:29pm

Hmm, a pocket-sized one, artfully displayed before a period picture frame. It does look a bit crude to me -- very wide-grained wood, rosewood fingerboard and a strange depression around the soundhole. That tailpiece doesn't belong on this mandolin, and is far too large.

Martin

**brunello97** · Jan-22-2008, 6:04pm

Yes, Martin, you are right. And such is often (though not always) a fair take on Puglisi. The tailpiece seems like it came off a US model. "Cheap and cheerful" would be what my old Brit architecture prof might say.

But if I can end the day with a metaphor in the spirit (if not the letter) of Victor's am caveat. Maybe some Puglisi's (such as this) are more like a puttanesca sauce rather than fine cuisine. Perhaps a few more alici from the cupboard for some, but tasty for me nonetheless.

This place has delighted me today. But Tuesdays are now tango night for KG and I. (Echoes of the Rote Salon in Berlin, Martin.) We are off!

Mick

**vkioulaphides** · Jan-23-2008, 6:44am

Most people I have met who described themselves as "simple" were instead richly cultured individuals, with a keen awareness of the world around them; conversely, those who put on laborious airs of great sophistication were instead mired in the pettiest of banalities. Feh!

As for my digression —I couldn't help it— I will only say in my defense that those who share our Greco-Roman view of life espouse a rather, ah... giocoso attitude towards such matters; those who view them in dreary earnesty, well... enrich their local psychoanalyst.

And, lest I be accused of sexist vulgarity, I don't mind adding that the lewdest, bawdiest jokes around the family table are invariably told (quite unapologetically, too!) by my many, jolly, and beautiful female cousins.

In yet another attempt to atone for the Sin of Digression, I must say I like Puglisis, too, and their local compatriots. Yes, garish at times but... The mandolin is, after all, a folk-lute. Let us enjoy it! If one takes the "Neapolitan street-noise" out of it, one somehow denatures it. If one tries to transform the song and dance of the Sicilian piazza into a scene from Ye Verie, Verie Quainte Tea-Parlour, one is painting all the wrong picture!

Pick on, be happy!

Cheers,

Victor

**billkilpatrick** · Jan-23-2008, 6:58am

interesting shape - wonder what (if any) effect the elongated bowl has on tonality?

**Plamen Ivanov** · Jan-23-2008, 9:52am

There are few things that bother me about this Puglisi besides the bridge and the tailpiece... First of all never heard about "Roma" Puglisi. The brand stamp behind the bridge isn't clear and i would say that it is somehow fabricated, but not the way it was supposed to be. Plus what Martin said. The oval hole and the inlay are also not typical. The only typical "Puglisi" thing on this is the shape of the headstock.

**Bob A** · Jan-23-2008, 3:09pm

It's always been a shock to me to discover hidden depths of raunch in the f of the s. Deadlier than the m, as well; at least, so I've read.

As for myself, only hidden depths of banality. Still, one must have SOME strengths. I play the cards I'm dealt. Digression seems to be my trump suit.

**Jim Garber** · Jan-23-2008, 4:47pm

Re: the Puglisi...

I heard from the seller as to scale length.

Originally Posted by

Nut to 12th fret is 17 cm or 6 3/4 inches. Entire scale lenght is approx. 9 in. Could be thumb size warping near soundhole or made that way? Not an expert in this field. Just selling stuff around the house.

Assuming his measuring is correct and the bridge is mislocated. I would say that this is a pocket mandolin and not a piccolo (short scale). Most of the pocket mandolins I have seen were of German make, so it is strange to see an Italian one.