According to the seller, this 18th century Vinaccia was converted from a 6 course instrument to a 4 course Neapolitan-tuned one.
Jim
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Various people (or the same person under different identities?) have been trying to sell this one for years. For a long time they tried to claim it was all original, but at least now they are admitting it has been modified. I don't think it was ever a Vinaccia. The trapezoidal pick guard is very un-Vinaccia and much more typical of the Genoese instruments. Attached is a pic of a Genoese mandolin from the late 18th century
cheers
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Howdy folks. Sorry for the long silence. Yes... that instrument has been around for a while, and it has definitely been modified.
One thing though, I do recall seeing several of these six-course instruments with similar Vinaccia (Joannes Vinaccio) labels. I wondered at the time if one of the family had branched out to serve some niche market. Anyone have any info?
Eric
"The effect is pretty at first... It is disquieting to find that there are nineteen people in England who can play the mandolin; and I sincerely hope the number may not increase."
- George Bernard Shaw, Times of London, December 12, 1893
Take a look at this "beauty". Looks like someone really wanted a more baroque-en mandolin and took a std turn-of-the-last-century neapolitan and converted with fixed moustache bridge and gut-like frets and some sort of parchment-like rosette. Very strange!!!
Unless, of course, I am mistaken and this is some sort of transitional instrument. Please let me know if that is the case.
Last edited by Jim Garber; Jul-29-2014 at 4:08pm.
Jim
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Playing lately:
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Not sure if this Ricca has shown up here before or not. Not really all that special but I like some of the odd details on Ricca mandolins: the body shape, the headstock and of course the great tailpiece.
The scratchplate ordinaire is a bit of a design letdown, though, and the top on this looks pretty woeful.
I had a pumpkin-top (?!) Ricca with some seriously nice bling on it for awhile. One of the mandolins I kick myself for letting go of.
I enjoy keeping an eye the Riccas that pass by. The NY / NJ Italian luthiers need an historical research / book treatment like has been done for the Chicagoians. That would be quite a project....
Mick
Ever tried, ever failed? No matter. Try again, fail again. Fail better.--Samuel Beckett
______________________
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I do like the rosette which sort of echoes the "sunrise" tailpiece.
Jim
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Playing lately:
1924 Gibson A4 - 2018 Campanella A-5 - 2007 Brentrup A4C - 1915 Frank Merwin Ashley violin - Huss & Dalton DS - 1923 Gibson A2 black snakehead - '83 Flatiron A5-2 - 1939 Gibson L-00 - 1936 Epiphone Deluxe - 1928 Gibson L-5 - ca. 1890s Fairbanks Senator Banjo - ca. 1923 Vega Style M tenor banjo - ca. 1920 Weymann Style 25 Mandolin-Banjo - National RM-1
Nothing really too noteworthy, but have been looking for a case for a bowlback, found one on Ebay with a mandolin in it for less than any HSC I have been able to find in the states.
Surprising part is that I believe the mandolin is playable and, from what I can tell, doesn't sound horrible, potentially better than my current student model. Needs some bridge work, but that seems to be about it.
Hi tkdboyd, et. al., I have that same mandolin from Taiwan. It was the first mandolin I bought and I learned my lesson when the soundboard cracked very badly about a month after it was in my home. It was playable at the beginning, now it sounds rather buzzy. I figure the case is worth more than the mandolin too.
Raffaele Calace No. 26 Mandolin
Early 1900s Magliano Mandolin
1968 Suzuki Mandola
2005 Aoyama Orpheus 47 Concert Grand Pedal Harp
2000 II/9/P Residence Pipe Organ - built by owner
Aspen Classical Guitar
Assorted recorders - baroque wind instruments
Gemeinhardt Flute
Hi, I was using whatever strings came on the mandolin when it arrived from Taiwan. My Calace is recent, I just got it a few months ago. I love it so far. It is a style 26. Great for a new bowlback made in Naples at a lower price point than many of the Calace "copies" from builders in other countries.
Raffaele Calace No. 26 Mandolin
Early 1900s Magliano Mandolin
1968 Suzuki Mandola
2005 Aoyama Orpheus 47 Concert Grand Pedal Harp
2000 II/9/P Residence Pipe Organ - built by owner
Aspen Classical Guitar
Assorted recorders - baroque wind instruments
Gemeinhardt Flute
This one is interesting Anyone have any clue as to its lineage?
I have to look thru my catalogs but my guess by the shape of the pickguard is William Tonk & Brothers from about the turn of the last century.
Jim
My Stream on Soundcloud
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Playing lately:
1924 Gibson A4 - 2018 Campanella A-5 - 2007 Brentrup A4C - 1915 Frank Merwin Ashley violin - Huss & Dalton DS - 1923 Gibson A2 black snakehead - '83 Flatiron A5-2 - 1939 Gibson L-00 - 1936 Epiphone Deluxe - 1928 Gibson L-5 - ca. 1890s Fairbanks Senator Banjo - ca. 1923 Vega Style M tenor banjo - ca. 1920 Weymann Style 25 Mandolin-Banjo - National RM-1
Nice looking Mayflower bowlback for sale in the classifieds. Very pretty mandolin. The action looks a bit high for my playing but it looks adjustable at the robust bridge. NFI on my part.
Not meaning to start a dustup but I wonder about the Larson attribution with these (Bob Hartmann's testament in his book notwithstanding.) The back of the head / neck detail looks classic Boston / Vega to me as does the bridge placement and scratchplate profile. Other LarBros details don't seem present. As always, the chances of me being wrong are high.
None of that should suggest it isn't a lovely mandolin. The Larsons may have a certain cachet, but Vega had the sound.
Mick
Ever tried, ever failed? No matter. Try again, fail again. Fail better.--Samuel Beckett
______________________
'05 Cuisinart Toaster
'93 Chuck Taylor lowtops
'12 Stetson Open Road
'06 Bialetti expresso maker
'14 Irish Linen Ramon Puig
Larson...Larson...Larson...Larson...Larson...Larso n...Larson...Larson...Larson...Larson...
Jim
My Stream on Soundcloud
19th Century Tunes
Playing lately:
1924 Gibson A4 - 2018 Campanella A-5 - 2007 Brentrup A4C - 1915 Frank Merwin Ashley violin - Huss & Dalton DS - 1923 Gibson A2 black snakehead - '83 Flatiron A5-2 - 1939 Gibson L-00 - 1936 Epiphone Deluxe - 1928 Gibson L-5 - ca. 1890s Fairbanks Senator Banjo - ca. 1923 Vega Style M tenor banjo - ca. 1920 Weymann Style 25 Mandolin-Banjo - National RM-1
Ever tried, ever failed? No matter. Try again, fail again. Fail better.--Samuel Beckett
______________________
'05 Cuisinart Toaster
'93 Chuck Taylor lowtops
'12 Stetson Open Road
'06 Bialetti expresso maker
'14 Irish Linen Ramon Puig
Heyo friends,
its me again with some need for your aid.
I`ve bought a unknown mandoline some weeks ago at the bay.
It looks fine for me and i have done some very few "restauration" on it.
Just put the old finish down, because the abalone-inlays are a bit "yellow"
(only a very fine sanding with 1500 grain-size),
get some shellac finish on it,
cleaned the machineheads and the tail-piece and put new strings on it.
As far as i can hear or see, it is in a good condition.
There is a small crack in the soundhole-bindings and a small deformation beneath
the scratchplate.
Now i'm wondering about the orign of the mandolin.
It seems very "roma" to me, but it could be a german copy as well.
There are no indicators on the mandolin.
Even the tail-piece, which says "marcelli" must have been renewed some years ago,
'cause there have been some different screwholes underneath the tail-piece.
When i put the dirt and smug of the top, i guess, i get an glimpse of a brandstamp
right down benath the bridge, but it must been sanded away some years ago.
What would you guys guess? Who did this instrument?
Greets,
Martin
Neck profile from what I can tell looks more rounded than Emberghers'. Marcelli, despite its Italian-sounding name is a German-made tailpiece. I know you said that it was prob after-market but the owner prob had one available. This looks to me to be a German copy of a Roman mandolin. How does it sound and play?it does look nice and in good condition.
Jim
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1924 Gibson A4 - 2018 Campanella A-5 - 2007 Brentrup A4C - 1915 Frank Merwin Ashley violin - Huss & Dalton DS - 1923 Gibson A2 black snakehead - '83 Flatiron A5-2 - 1939 Gibson L-00 - 1936 Epiphone Deluxe - 1928 Gibson L-5 - ca. 1890s Fairbanks Senator Banjo - ca. 1923 Vega Style M tenor banjo - ca. 1920 Weymann Style 25 Mandolin-Banjo - National RM-1
Jim,
yes, i though so too. It may be some good stuff from Marktneukirchen
The sound is good in my opinion. Al lot of overtones and a long sustain.
What i think is, that the Martin-Strings are not the best choice for a BB. They are a little bit too bluegrassy, if you know what i mean.
Maybe i will take the mandolin with me to our orchestra practice. Have a comparision with the belcanto-mandolin and all the german-luthier-stuff the are playing.
You know, that in the german stringorchestras, the often play new handmade mandolins from german luthiers such as Woll or Launhardt or Stoll etc.
Very expansive stuff i guess.
Sounds more bright and fat in my opinion.
The italian mandolins ( and the old german "fakes" ) are more delightfull, more brilliant in my ear.
I don't own a lot of BB Mandolins by my own, so i only can compare it with my old Ibanez A 509 and therefor i can say, that the BB is much more soundfull.
Martin
I personally prefer Dogal Calace roundwound strings on my bowlbacks, but I like the brighter sound. Some like Thomastik flatwound strings but I do not like them on bowlbacks. That is just my preference.
Jim
My Stream on Soundcloud
19th Century Tunes
Playing lately:
1924 Gibson A4 - 2018 Campanella A-5 - 2007 Brentrup A4C - 1915 Frank Merwin Ashley violin - Huss & Dalton DS - 1923 Gibson A2 black snakehead - '83 Flatiron A5-2 - 1939 Gibson L-00 - 1936 Epiphone Deluxe - 1928 Gibson L-5 - ca. 1890s Fairbanks Senator Banjo - ca. 1923 Vega Style M tenor banjo - ca. 1920 Weymann Style 25 Mandolin-Banjo - National RM-1
Jim
My Stream on Soundcloud
19th Century Tunes
Playing lately:
1924 Gibson A4 - 2018 Campanella A-5 - 2007 Brentrup A4C - 1915 Frank Merwin Ashley violin - Huss & Dalton DS - 1923 Gibson A2 black snakehead - '83 Flatiron A5-2 - 1939 Gibson L-00 - 1936 Epiphone Deluxe - 1928 Gibson L-5 - ca. 1890s Fairbanks Senator Banjo - ca. 1923 Vega Style M tenor banjo - ca. 1920 Weymann Style 25 Mandolin-Banjo - National RM-1
Somewhere in my notes, I wrote that the Regent labeled line were existing / in progress stock from AC Fairbanks production when the companies merged / blurred into Vega around the turn of the century. Of course, I didn't write down any citation for this so I may be spreading rumors.
The Vega label did evolve over the years and the label with the crown and name inside are some of the earlier ones I have seen. From my experience, Vega / Fairbanks made nice instruments across all 'price points': very light weight and responsive relative to say L+H mandolins at the same $$.
How to determine a good luthier in your area? Lots of folks post a separate inquiry in one of the more general topic threads (or in the builders / repair thread.) You've got a nice mandolin there. I wouldn't trust it to a jack-of-all trades repairperson.
Ask to see some of their documented work. Ask them to describe how they would go about making the repairs you desire. You could ask a similar question here to some of the fine craftspeople who frequent the MC (John Maddock, for instance) and compare notes with what you find out from your luthier resources. If you're not in a hurry a bit of research can save some headaches.
Mick
Ever tried, ever failed? No matter. Try again, fail again. Fail better.--Samuel Beckett
______________________
'05 Cuisinart Toaster
'93 Chuck Taylor lowtops
'12 Stetson Open Road
'06 Bialetti expresso maker
'14 Irish Linen Ramon Puig
I'm intrigued by this eBay listing for a Larson (maybe) bowl back:
http://r.ebay.com/Sh0t9y
It seems to have several Larsonesque features, but I'm far from an expert on these instruments. Any thoughts from the knowledgeable folks on this forum would be much appreciated.
Thanks!
-- Steve
"The days that I keep my gratitude higher than my expectations, those are really good days." (Ray Wylie Hubbard)
“You’re entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts”
(attr. Daniel Patrick Moynihan)
1923 Gibson A2 paddlehead
Boy that big slab of MOP is ugly on that one. I have never seen Carleton. Of course, anything is possible with the Larsons, but I am always doubtful first -- I would like it proved to me. That bone bridge looks all wrong and may also be in the wrong position on the top.
Then again, Mrs. Osswald did live or work in Chicago...
BTW the seller also has it listed on reverb.com with some additional photos.
Here is the excerpt from the article in the Chicago Tribune which really doesn't prove too much.
Jim
My Stream on Soundcloud
19th Century Tunes
Playing lately:
1924 Gibson A4 - 2018 Campanella A-5 - 2007 Brentrup A4C - 1915 Frank Merwin Ashley violin - Huss & Dalton DS - 1923 Gibson A2 black snakehead - '83 Flatiron A5-2 - 1939 Gibson L-00 - 1936 Epiphone Deluxe - 1928 Gibson L-5 - ca. 1890s Fairbanks Senator Banjo - ca. 1923 Vega Style M tenor banjo - ca. 1920 Weymann Style 25 Mandolin-Banjo - National RM-1
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