Bowlbacks of Note

**Martin Jonas** · Apr-21-2010, 6:01pm

Originally Posted by Jim Garber

Well, it is not all that noteworthy but someone got a decent deal (I think) on this 1926 Embergher Type 1. It looks dried out tho and I have a feeling needs lots of work.

I would be very concerned about the top and the neck joint: looking at the shape of that soundhole it seems to me to be very off-oval and I would think that points to either the neck having moved forward a fair deal or the top being very warped. The former, most likely.

Martin

**brunello97** · Apr-21-2010, 10:28pm

I agree with Martin's assessment. My guess is that the Calace is probably an easier repair than the Embergher.

Mick

**Jim Garber** · Apr-21-2010, 11:09pm

Still, the Embergher is actually more in one piece, would require taking the top off, but at $300 might be a good deal even if the repairs came to $1000, right?

**Jim Garber** · Apr-22-2010, 8:41pm

Originally Posted by Jim Garber

I have never played a vintage Italian bowlback by one of the big three makers.

I just happened on this quote from me from July 2004. Of course, since that I have remedied that situation.

**brunello97** · Apr-22-2010, 9:05pm

Originally Posted by Jim Garber

Still, the Embergher is actually more in one piece, would require taking the top off, but at $300 might be a good deal even if the repairs came to $1000, right?

Certainly. But I admit to having no real knowledge to judge that financially or musically. I was just speaking in terms of repair processes that I have (a very limited) understanding of. Dealing with a rotated bowlback neck and the subsequent top cave-in is pretty serious business, at least from what I can ascertain from the few of them that I have here with that exact problem. (I'm trusting Martin's eyes here more than mine.....) I shimmed the fretboard and reinforced the top on a very pretty Lanfranco bowlback only to have it cave in again after stringing with GHS ultra-lights. No doubt Emberghers are more substantially constructed, if just as wonderfully lightweight.

My guess is that the actual repair on the Embergher would be more comprehensive than that on the legendary DeMureda that Dave Hyndes walked us through a few years back. That was for sure an amazing process, but it was all rather straightforward work--step by step with great care and craftsmanship. I would appreciate a re-topping and fretboard shimming on a DeMureda with problems similar to the Embergher, but I think that instrument deserves a more integral repair. I am looking forward to the seeing the process of resetting an Italian bowlback neck revealed. Certainly, it is being done and done well, but that is probably more akin to open-heart surgery than the mending-of-bones analogy of repairing necks, tops, etc. I have another old Lanfranco that I plan to give it a go with this summer. Christian Barnard, I am not.

Hopefully the $300 purchaser will come round and let us know what it is all about. Maybe the repairs would be easier than I imagine and a truly classic ebay deal was had. That would be exciting.

Mick

**Bruce Clausen** · May-13-2010, 2:52pm

Nice looking 1898 maple-bowl Vinaccia in the Classifieds today, as nearby (for us in N. America) as Oklahoma. Apparently imported to the US when new. Hope someone will check it out.

BC

**Bob A** · May-13-2010, 4:10pm

$850/lb, or $50/inch. Couldn't figure out how to get to the photos.

**Bruce Clausen** · May-13-2010, 5:16pm

You're just the guy I was thinking of, Bob. Feel like a long drive?

There used to be a builder of historic wind instruments (cornetti, Baroque flutes and oboes, etc.) in Montreal who actually did charge by length. As I understand it, he felt this was fairer than allowing supply and demand to take over the pricing process. I think each mm. was charged at the current Montreal price of a liter of milk. Not sure if he continues to apply this principle.

Bruce

**Jim Garber** · May-13-2010, 5:54pm

I was thinking of using that as a model to rework the one I have, esp the rosette.

Here are the pics, Bob.

**Jim Garber** · May-13-2010, 5:54pm

Here are the rest of the pics.

**brunello97** · May-13-2010, 7:45pm

I think this is a very sweet looking mandolin. I had a Favilla bowlback that was a dead knock-off of this one, so our good taste was obviously shared 100 years ago.

I know Bob is with me in being especially weak for maple-bowls. This one seems in very good condition and is here on the left side of the pond. I am very happy for whomever winds up with it (unless of course it winds up in ATsaiLandia.)

Great photos, btw. We've got another 'House of Savoy' crest there on the label. And someone else working for La Regina besides G. de Meglio..... What does one suppose S.M. means here? 'Stabilimento mandolino'? 'Studio Musico'? We need M-N James back in this thread to help parse this label.

I'll admit to having been totally seduced by my Gibson and Schwab over the last year, but this is rapidly becoming "The Summer of the Bowl". Couldn't be any better, Bob.

Mick

**Bruce Clausen** · May-13-2010, 7:59pm

Not "Her Majesty"?

BC

**brunello97** · May-13-2010, 8:52pm

Doh. Sua Maestà. All too easy, Bruce. After all the wrangling over DeMeglio (and Dan Brown in Naples) I was hoping for something more.

Mick

**Martin Jonas** · May-14-2010, 1:47am

As you'll remember from the de Meglio thread, I had already flagged up that Queen Margherita used exclusively Vinaccia mandolins. All Fratelli Vinaccia mandolins have the crest on the label.

Martin

**brunello97** · May-14-2010, 9:48am

Originally Posted by Martin Jonas

As you'll remember from the de Meglio thread, I had already flagged up that Queen Margherita used exclusively Vinaccia mandolins. All Fratelli Vinaccia mandolins have the crest on the label.

Martin

Yup. I am enjoying all this reawakening of our interests and discussions. Trying to keep the bowl turning.

Mick

**Bob A** · May-14-2010, 3:57pm

Thanks for the pics, jim. It is a very tasty looking mandolin indeed. If only I didn't have a few dozen underfoot already I'd be sore tempted. I need to exchange all my rosewood bowlbacks for maple, I think.

While I didn't have anything of substance to add to the DeMeglio thread, I find it of great interest. Much worthwhile research gets done on this site; wish the internet weren't such a basically tenuous environment. Old folks like me tend to prefer text on paper for long-term knowledge storage.

**Jim Garber** · May-14-2010, 4:04pm

It is funny, I actually love both flavors of bowl. I have (way too) many of both, of course. Ironically, the American bowlback makers leaned to rosewood whereas in the Italy makers leaned toward maple. You would have thought that fancy flamed maple was just as available in north America and more common than rosewood.

**Bob A** · May-14-2010, 7:05pm

Well, I doubt that there's any real tonal difference, but somehow maple just makes me happier. Looks cool with rosewood trim too.

Bernunzio had a Maurer bowlback that had alternating ribs of maple and rosewood. Sat unloved in his website for quite a while, then I think he traded it off. I should have bought it, but by then the collection was already ridiculous. It's the only maple example I can remember seeing by a US maker of the period.

**Jim Garber** · May-14-2010, 7:14pm

That singular Vega Abt that, I think, our brother Eric snapped up was a maple-bowled. OTOH Embergher charged a premium for the rosewood models. I think, given the same model that there is a difference in tone tho I could not exactly characterize it.

**Jim Garber** · May-18-2010, 9:35pm

Lovely, fully restored 1912 Embergher #2 being sold by Kurt DeCorte of Belgium. I have a feeling that there is a mistake because on one hand he mentions pickup only and in the description he says 40 euros to ship worldwide.

**vkioulaphides** · May-19-2010, 6:26am

Were I Embergherless, I would surely go for this. Kurt's work is exemplary, and he knows these instruments well.

Happy hunting! ;-)

Cheers,

Victor

**Martin Jonas** · May-19-2010, 6:44am

Originally Posted by vkioulaphides

Were I Embergherless, I would surely go for this. Kurt's work is exemplary, and he knows these instruments well.

Does that mean that you're not Embergherless now? I thought your only bowlback now was your newish Calace?

Martin

**vkioulaphides** · May-19-2010, 6:56am

No, in fact I do have a lovely Model 1, in truly impeccable condition, with a new (5bis-type) bridge made by Kurt. All else on the instrument is original; the vintage is 1938, and the series numbers pinpoint it at around the time when the transfer/transition to Cerrone's administration would have been taking place, if I'm not mistaken. I acquired this instrument about a year and a half ago.

I don't have an image handy, but it is much like the one below:

http://www.embergher.com/index.php?id=61

I am in a strange, "perpetual interim" relationship with this instrument: while I do play it regularly, I have yet to perform on it. Perhaps my primeval habituation to flat fingerboards and U-shaped necks always pulls me back to the Calace; or perhaps I haven't yet "cracked the code" of the Embergher's specs, vis-a-vis how it all fits in my hands. I do love it, though, and hope to come to terms with it. In the meanwhile, on stage (e.g. tonight), it will be me and my trusty Calace ;-)

Cheers,

Victor

**Jim Garber** · May-19-2010, 1:18pm

Victor's mandolin is indeed a lovely one. I was there when he first met it via the capable hands of our mutual friend from Antwerp.

In the meantime, this 18th Century-style mandolin came onto my mando-radar. Interesting, tho unless this were some sort of known maker -- I have not heard of him, but i am not really aware of makers that far back -- I think the price is high, esp unrestored. Curious... i would love to know more.

**Margriet** · May-19-2010, 2:00pm

Jim:
interesting.......I suppose also rare.
I found this in the book of Janssens, geschiedenis van de mandoline: (translated)
Giuseppe da Maria
Makes violins in Naples, but is especially known by his mandolins.
Label: Joseph de Maria fecit
Napoli 1771.
or: Joseph di Maria di Nap.
in Strada S Pietro a Maiella
feci in Napoli Ano Dni 1778.

Hope this helps a tiny little bit.
I did not know that Joseph were the child of Maria.......I have heard the story in another way.........