Bowlbacks of Note

**Eugene** · Jun-27-2004, 8:33am

I don't think that bit of white (I'd guess bone) on the D'Isanto above is original; it looks rather amateurishly shaped and doesn't look like the typical method for doing such things. #Very early on (from the first Neapolitan instruments into the mid to late 1800s), there was often an inlaid plate of pearl in mastic, ivory, or some hardwood at the butt to protect the table as the strings came off the hitch pins and over the top (see attached picture of my anonymous ca. 1835-40 French instrument, possibly from the Eulry shop). #By the late 1800s, as steel strings became more prevalent, those mandolins that still employed ivory hitch pins often had a little metal plate with a 90-degree bend in it to sit along the edge of the table and protect it from the bite of strings. It simply sat there, no formal "installation," held by string tension. #By way of example, it seems that Stridente made most of their instruments this way. #It looks like the UK D'Isanto on eBay has such a plate hiding under the probably non-original bit of plastic/celluloid. #Unfortunately, such metal plates would be even more prone to loss than tailpiece covers. #I understand fabricating metal with a bend along a curve is not an easy one-off type job.

**Eugene** · Jun-27-2004, 8:48am

What's the story with this character? I assumed it was a German knock-off of Embergher's orchestral instruments and intended to throw a couple hundred at it. In the last moments of the auction, well, it shot to over US$700.

**Jim Garber** · Jun-27-2004, 8:46pm

Here another Vinaccia . This one looks like a handyman's special. The label (different from others I have seen) looks like it says 1904 or 1907.

Looks like it says "Provveditori di S.M. La Regina Margherita" It seem sot be signed by someone named Vinaccia, tho.

Any clues on this one. I wonder if Carlo M will end up with it.

Jim

**Jim Garber** · Jun-27-2004, 8:59pm

Joe Todaro posted this notice about his South American-made bowlback. Looks interesting, esp since the bowl is carved out of a solid piece of wood. The price is a little high for my tastes. Still, I wouldn't mind trying one.

This is a guy who imports instruments from Bolivia. I bought a nice charango from him at the Philadelphia Guitar show some years ago.

Jim

**Bob A** · Jun-27-2004, 9:59pm

Hello all. Just back from a weekend at the old homestead in Rochester NY. Stopped in to Bernunzio's (I'm consigning a few instruments to alleviate the fiscal hit for recent bowlback excess) and he gifted me with a brick of Black Diamond strings. I wanted to point this out to youall because of the price, though they're not bowlback-suitable. (At least the ones I got aren't. Not sure if he has other types). It was a box of 12 sets of bronze strings, 0.011., 0.014, 0.025, 0.039. I think the set number was 764. But he's putting them on ebay for something like 17/box, which is a buck and a half a set. So if you need cheap strings for your Gibsons, here's a chance to score a lifetime supply.

Saw the (ad for) the Vinaccia Jim mentions. Looks like poor photography covers a multitude of sins. Carlo is welcome to the restoration job.

Also saw (back to Bernunzio again) the Epiphone bowlback mandola he mentions in his site. A fascinating thing: the neck seems to have a central portion that is laminated out of several contrasting slices of wood, light/dark, reminiscent of the Framus things, though not nearly so extensive - it comprises only the central third of the neck. Nice big bowl, rosewood apparently, and the asymmetric, diverging braces. Two problems: first, it looks like it was dropped on the tailpiece, which crushed the binding at the t'piece, about an inch in extent. It only seems to go as far as the binding - table intact. Second, the final brace, closest to the t'piece, has been knocked loose. I don't think John or his repairperson is up to the task of getting in there and gluing it back. This is a job for someone who has done this sort of thing before, or perhaps a midget. I suspect it is a quality piece, and certainly rare. I bring it to your attention thinking that it might find a home with one of us. (I didn't spend much time examining it; seemed inappropriate to get mandolalust even as I attempt to claw out of the hole I've jumped in chasing the elusive mandolin).

**Plamen Ivanov** · Jun-29-2004, 6:29am

Hello!

Here are some more mandolins. I don`t think they are "of note" in terms of nice sounding, nice looking, etc. but some of them are strange at least.

Good luck!

**Martin Jonas** · Jun-30-2004, 6:06am

Originally Posted by (jgarber @ June 26 2004, 21:55)

Marc:
This Angara & Disanto just came up on eBay. The seller will only ship to the UK. Looks pretty good but there is a strange tailpiece cover. I would guess that that was an addition by the owner so that he would not get his cuff caught on the string ends. it looks sort of plastic and not the sort of substance that would be in existence in 1891.

This one has now been withdrawn from sale, which is a pity as I was thinking about bidding on it as a gift for my mother. Presumably someone made him an offer he couldn't refuse.

Martin

**vkioulaphides** · Jun-30-2004, 6:16am

Ah, Martin, you see how pernicious MAS can be! You get the Ceccherini; you get hooked on the sweet, old, Neapolitan sound; you think: "There is more to life than Miroglio"; you think of your mother; "what if?" you imagine... The rest is history, dreadful history. #

Victor (who is taking a mandolin as a gift to his mother-in-law in a couple of weeks, on the occasion of her 80th birthday)

**Jim Garber** · Jun-30-2004, 6:18am

That is funny. I just emailed the seller last night to see if he would reconsider shipping to US. Iwasn;t all that serious tho and would defer to you, Martin.

You might check with the seller anyway. Sometimes there are other reasons he may have stopped the auction. Perhaps he got nervous that there weren't enough bids.

Jim

**Alex Timmerman** · Jun-30-2004, 3:46pm

Hello,

At eBay France a nice early 20th century De Meglio style mandolin with all original decorations made by Luigi Dosio atelier.

Looks like a fine mandolin.

Greetings,

Alex

**Martin Jonas** · Jul-01-2004, 10:24am

Not sure whether this deMeglio at Ebay UK has been mentioned yet. #The buyer is looking for a fixed "Buy It Now" price of 300 Pounds, with no alternative auction option. #Unlike most of the ones seen here, this one still has its tortoiseshell/inlay tailpiece cover (at least I assume it's original, as the inlay seems to match the pickguard). #It looks very clean and light, but on the photos, the bridge looks to be balancing right on the cant and there is a visible mark on the top further forward, presumably the original bridge location. #Is this a smudge between tailpiece and bridge, or a patent brand?

Martin

**vkioulaphides** · Jul-01-2004, 10:53am

Yes, the tailpiece cover looks original; my 1897 de Meglio has it, too. Also, yes, the "smudge" is presumably the indented patent. The position of the bridge, however, (in relation to the cant) makes one wonder.

To clarify my point: The bridge on my de Meglio (and many other vintage instruments) is also a bit further down from the "ghost", original position; a millimeter or two at the most. In this case, however, the bridge is WAAAAAAAY out of place. Is it, then, a lousy setup or a compromise for a severely impaired instrument?

Looks very nice and clean. I would still ask the seller a couple of salient questions before wiring GBP300 his way...

**Alex Timmerman** · Jul-01-2004, 1:23pm

Hello martinjonas and Victor,

It looks like e very nice instrument and like the one at eBay France, all decorations are original. there is one alteration and that is the bone sadle in the bridge. This whould have been bronce if original. For the rest it looks great with it´s nice 20 frets fingerboard.

The bridge is as you noticed way out of it´s place. Perhaps the seller has just fixed it up for the photo. Also when strung with flatwound strings - as in this case - the swinging stringlength needs to be longer a few milimetres. Whatever the case might be; as far as I can see from the images shown, I don´t think there is any need for the bridge to be where it is now.

Greetings,

Alex

**Martin Jonas** · Jul-01-2004, 3:49pm

Actually, I was just putting this in the "Bowlbacks of Note" thread to point it out to others -- I'm not seriously considering buying it. #300 Pounds would be a good price for a good de Meglio, I guess, but too risky for an eBay purchase of an old mandolin. #The d'Isanto was at around 40 Pounds when it was withdrawn and even though it would no doubt have gone up quite a bit (maybe to 120 to 150 Pounds), it would have been a different proposition. #After all, neither I nor my mother have an actual shortage of mandolins...

Martin

**Dolamon** · Jul-05-2004, 5:44am

A Mandolin of "Note" - well, at least different ... Scott has this Listed in Eye Candy .It is a bit off but - an electric Neopolitan? Just in case you get stuck in a rowdy, cavernous bistro and can't be heard above the clink of glass and laughter.

(well - it might happen)

Scroll over the Mandolin and click - it is in Italian but ...

**pklima** · Jul-05-2004, 10:57am

Hey, I've played Neapolitans through fuzz pedals before. I suppose there's a market for e-Neapolitans among Mediterranean folk-rockers.

**Jim Garber** · Jul-05-2004, 4:48pm

Here #is something that looks like a mandolin and costs about what the equiv would. You can't even play the thing. Oh well. Cute and pretty detailed, tho.

Jim

**Jim Garber** · Jul-05-2004, 6:31pm

This basket-case F. Calace mandolin just came on eBay. I am not familiar with this member of the Calace family. Any clue to age? I bet this will go for $200 or more, as is.

Jim

**vkioulaphides** · Jul-06-2004, 9:05am

Jim, I suspect (and this is ONLY a guess) that the upper-case "F." is meant to be mentally attached to the lower-case "lli" above— a common Italian abbreviation for "Fratelli" = brothers. Just my guess.

I would not bid on something in this state, though.

**Jim Garber** · Jul-06-2004, 11:32am

Of course... no excuse for my ignorance... and I didn't see that "lli" above the F on the tailpiece. "Ah, yes, yet another example of those mandolins made by the prodigious Fratelli Brothers..."

In any case, any clue as to the vintage of this poor mandolin.

Jim

**vkioulaphides** · Jul-06-2004, 11:58am

I'd think that the other brother would have been Nicola (later grudgingly renamed by himself Nicola Turturro), the "lesser" brother in comparison to The Great Raffaele. Others might know better... I am not sure about the date of Nicola's emigration to the States.

No excuses needed; in fact, I have a relevant, historical trivium for you: The type of long-barrel, front-loading rifle Greeks used in their revolution against the Ottoman Turks is commonly known, to this day, as "karyofíli", as if it were a noun, neutral gender, just like any other.

The provenance of said rifles, however, is quite enlightening on this otherwise etymologically inscrutable word: These rifles were either manufactured by, or at least packaged in Italy, as Greek expatriots from all around Europe would raise money for their rebel brothers to bear arms. The rifles would then arrive secretly in Greece in wooden cases bearing the brand name of the Italian shipping firm. The actual, last name of the business owner was impossible to pronounce in Greek, or too long, or too difficult to decipher; the company-name, however, conveniently ended with the business owner's #first name, plus the suffix e figli. For example, if the full company-name had been "Armi da caccia, pistole, ecc., ecc., ecc... Cagliostri Carlo e figli " the Greeks, unable to read the Roman alphabet and having heard the name only once, from the illiterate stevedores unloading the crates with the rifles, only retained... Karyofíli, from "Carlo e figli" = Carlo & Sons.

Not to mention Vivaldi's scoring for corni di salmo ("psalm horns"?!?), which stems however from an Italian mispronunciation of the French chalumeau (reed), or many other such linguistic mysteries.

But I digress— worse than other times, I'm afraid. #

Still, no go on the bid, not from me.

**Jim Garber** · Jul-06-2004, 12:33pm

Originally Posted by (vkioulaphides @ July 06 2004, 12:58)

Still, no go on the bid, not from me.

Thanks, Victor for the word origin story. I love that stuff. I would only bid on it to say I have a vintage Calace and hopefully to restore it somehow or save it from wallhanger status. As I said, I doubt it will go for flea market pricing.

Jim

**vkioulaphides** · Jul-07-2004, 6:13am

[QUOTE]"... I doubt it will go for flea market pricing."

Or maybe it will... who knows?

Truth be told, Jim, considering how happier and happier by the day I am with my nearly-newborn Calace, I simply have no appetite for a vintage piece with such enormous reconstructive needs— however low the winning bid might be.

Say you get this for, uhm... $50. Just say... What then? Pull the top off, rebuild it from within, rebrace, reglue everything, then reposition it on the bowl —which, of course, would necessitate redoing all the intricate binding work— then all the requisite work on the fingerboard, then the final, highly questionable setup? (... on which, of course, the very playability of the instrument and any qualitative, sounding-value will be tested)

I don't know, Jim... The way you speak of salvaging instruments makes this sound (to me, at least) as if this is YOUR own take on pilgrimage (as per the related thread).

Still, sainthood is lonely, tedious, and largely ineffectual.

Yours,

The Joyful Heathen

**Jim Garber** · Jul-07-2004, 7:29am

Frankly, Victor, you are right. The last thing I need is another basket-case mandolin. I was just expressing my frustration at lacking a decent vintage Italian bowlback -- the incessant collector in me.

Back to practicing... as my wife says, you can only play one mandolin at a time.

Jim

**vkioulaphides** · Jul-07-2004, 8:23am

Your wife is a practical woman— most are. Not to mention that time is of necessity precious little; not to mention that much higher musical returns are to be had by diligent practice (on ANY decent, playable instrument) than by collecting several of them; not to mention, after all, that vita brevis bit...