Bowlbacks of Note

[fretman45]

Hi, I recently purchased a Vega # 2 bowl back off ebay. The instrument plays great and sounds terrific. It has a serial # of 17421. I was wondering if anyone could give me an approximation of this instrument's date.
The label reads Vega guitars, mandolins,zithers,bandurrias.
Since Vega purchased Fairbanks banjo co. in 1904, I'm wondering if they ever added the word banjos to their label after that date?
By the way, has anyone ever seen a Vega bandurria? I perform from time to time with a Philippine rondalla group playing Philippine bandurria (14 strings vs 12). Would love to perhaps acquire a Vega bandurria.

[Jim Garber]

I don't have a Vega Sn list but it is prob in the first decade of the 20th century. I have never seen a Vega bandurria nor do I know of anyone who has. I have a feeling they were just covering all bases since visit from the Spanish Students.

Jim

[billkilpatrick]

i tried to post this before but something went wrong:

have a look at the mandolin pictured here:

http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard...d.php?tid=4650

... if this connection doesn't work, open the "ouds,ouds,ouds" section of the forum and look for "Al Tayyar fascinating elegance." the mandolin is fascinating and it is elegant.

- bill

[Bob A]

A lovely instrument. I have to ask whether the violin-style pegs are useable without fine tuners? Geared tuners are not as attractive, but certainly easier to use, I imagine.

[Martin Jonas]

Well, the de Santis copy posted by Davide Serracini here has friction pegs, albeit arranged in a flat headstock rather than a violin-syle peg box. Of course, that one may not be so easy to tune either.

Martin

[Jim Garber]

If I were building one I would use these tuners. I have heard that they are pretty good and as easy to use as geared ones.

BTW any clue as to who and where the luthier Al Tayyar is? The only search results I can find is on that oud board.

Jim

[Neil Gladd]

A Merrill aluminum mandolin on eBay. I'd like one of these someday to play Abt on, but not today.

[Eugene]

have a look at the mandolin pictured here:

http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard...d.php?tid=4650

It looks nice, but I really suspect it was crafted to look nice. I don't think that old-fashioned tuning arrangement would be effective with the evidently modern stringing at concert pitch. Like others, I probably would have suggested either the use of geared tuners or a soundbox designed to be responsive to old-fashioned strings. The bridge behind the cant is interesting and harks back to ca. 1900 Vega.

I like oud and I like mandolin. I think there's a reason that over hundreds of years, their building techniques have come to be what they are and distinct. I still don't quite understand building for a visual aesthetic if practical use is limited. Having not spoken with the builder or handled the admittedly beautiful instrument, I don't know that it is purely a visual creature...but it sure looks that way.

[Eugene]

A Merrill aluminum mandolin on eBay. I'd like one of these someday to play Abt on, but not today.

Sure enough, they're weird. I played a Merril guitar once. It was weird too.

[Jim Garber]

I doubt the Merrill will sell at that price. Did Abt play one?

Jim

[Bob A]

I'd like a Merrill someday too, but not for 8 centuries. Still, this one looks in better shape than some I've seen.

[Neil Gladd]

I doubt the Merrill will sell at that price. Did Abt play one?

It's one of the instruments that he played, but used a few different ones over time. I think that he eventually endorsed Gibson. I just recently received my copy of the Abt biography, but have only skimmed through it, so far.

[Jim Garber]

He was an endorser of Washburn evidentally circa 1912.

Jim

[fretman45]

According to my circa 1912 Vega catalog, Abt also endorsed Vega, and Vega sold a special Abt model with maple ribs rather than Brazilian rosewood, which was more customary for Vega at that time.

[Neil Gladd]

I doubt the Merrill will sell at that price.

You are correct, sir. It didn't.

[Jim Garber]

Yup, that Merrill is now listed at $96 cheaper starting bid. At that rate, in a couple of more rounds, it might sell.

Jim

[Neil Gladd]

I would expect a WINNING bid of about $500.

[Jim M.]

Darn, and I thought the Merrill I bought for $300 was appreciating faster than a Loar.

Seriously, though, it's a great little instrument and an interesting piece of history. I read that the Merrill has the first mandolin-related patent in the US.

[Jim Garber]

Here is an interesting mandolin made in 1904 by George Foley. I was beginning to think that there were no mandolin makers in the UK around that time and that all were imported from Italy. Is anyone familiar with this maker? It looks pretty nice and I like the eccentric treatment of the oblong soundhole and the scratchplate.

Jim

[Martin Jonas]

I've seen a Foley before, but I think it was dated a few years later. #It does look rather nice, with some cues (headstock, tuners, bridge, string downholders, onlaid scratchplate surrounding the soundhole) taken from de Meglio. #However, the unusual shape of soundhole and scratchplate and the lack of binding give it a distinctly different appearance. #Also, the soundhole is much closer to the bridge than on any other bowlback I've seen -- this one has 22 frets without needing a fretboard extension! #I wonder whether it has the de Meglio side holes. #I may be a nice instrument, but without knowing the maker, the starting bid is rather too high and I don't think it will sell. #There was a somewhat less classy looking Foley flatback on Ebay last month (here) which didn't sell at £150. #The flatback, with its raised pickguard, looks a much later design.

I've also come across the odd other UK-made mandolin, but nothing I was tempted by. #I believe the plentiful "Neapolitan College of Music" mandolinettos are British, too, but I don't know how they compare to, say, Howe-Orme.

Martin

[Martin Jonas]

I think this is the new winner of the "fewest ribs" category: an impressive total of five, including the side ribs.

Martin

[Jim Garber]

Technically, this Mozzani only has three ribs, but that is debatable.

The La Foley (I think that is his correct name) does have the soundhole somewhat forward, but I think the intention is to have that fretboard extending fully without going over the soundhole. However, if the maker did not follow Embergher's lead and hollowed out the extension, I would think that the extension would stifle the volume you would get from the soundboard.

I did ask the seller for additional photos. I wonder if the maker did copy Demeglio.

Jim

[trebleclef528]

La Foley (George Foley)mandolins.
I've seen quite a few of these which appeared to be sold from around 1890 to 1915. Unusual style I suppose for this period of time and a good guess that Foley did copy (like a lot of luthiers) some of the De Meglio features. A lot of his madolins were sold under the label of "Barnes and Mullens".You can see one similar to the "ebay" on at www.theacousticmusicco.co.uk also Hobgoblin in London have a 12 course for sale.

The Neapolitan School of Music (Mandoletto shape) and The Vienesse School of Music ( a variation of the manoletto shapemandolins are a bit of a mystery (The "schools" apparently did not exist... it was just a name given to the mandolins). Usually very good sounding instuments often with a picture on the whole of the back with a lady playing an instrument an again with features probably copied from De Meglio. Almost certain that the Neapolitan/Vienesse school mandolins were by the same builder although who that was remains a mystery (to me at least.

[Jim Garber]

Richard Walz told me about this mandola built and for sale by Daniel Larson. Very similar to one that Richard plays. For more info contact Daniel: dan@daniellarson.com

Long scale length. I guess it could be strung as an octave mandolin as well.

Jim

[Eugene]

I played that very instrument this summer at the Lute Society of America convention. The visual aesthetic is classic Larson quirky. The sound is very nice.