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Thread: Bowlbacks of Note

  1. #5801
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Quote Originally Posted by Smiley Pockets View Post
    I have not played either instrument. I'm considering a Calace rosewood Model 15 listed on the Cafe that is in my area to try out in person (always preferred), or an Eastman on Ebay, also rosewood.

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI...ht_1691wt_1308

    Hmm, there is another Calace now listed on the cafe from 1962 with with rosewood back.
    The Calace with the big neck I tried a few weeks ago was recently made prob 2011 or 2010. It would be good to take a look at the one locally so you can see how the neck is.

    The eBay listing for the Eastman is no longer there. The seller of the 1962 Calace is Schlegel who posts here a fair amount and who is an aficionado of Italian bowlbacks. I have a feeling that it is a nice one and if you have your heart set on a Calace and the local one does not meet your needs, that one might be a good bet.
    Jim

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  2. #5802
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    As for the ostensible No.4 Embergher... I checked with Ralf and he had seen same one some time ago being sold by a German dealer. The label does not belong with that mandolin and he thought that the mandolin was not made by the Embergher workshop-- there are no signatures inside the body (mine has Luigi's signature on a rib inside the bowl) and there are other subtleties that would indicate that it was not of the workshop. Those inlays esp the inlaid ivory looked wrong to me as well. However he said, it was one of the best copies he has seen and could be an excellent player at a reasonable price but as far as an authentic Embergher was not a style 4 or even by that maker.
    Jim

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  3. #5803
    Full Grown and Cussin' brunello97's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    That's quite a story, Jim. It certainly is a good looking copy, if Ralf's estimate is correct. Makes me think of all these fake-Gibson threads that pop up here now and then. If you could make something that good looking, why not go into business for yourself? Certainly, a number of the custom F5 makers sell their mandolins for a higher price than non-Loar Gibsons fetch. Did Ralf have any idea when this might have been from?

    I've always been fascinated with stories of art forgeries, etc.

    Mick
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  4. #5804
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    I don't think that the original maker put that label in there. I think it was that original dealer (not the seller on eBay) who did. That dealer evidently had a real 1912 Embergher in basket-case shape and figured it was a way to jack up the price. i don't think Ralf knew who the original maker was.
    Jim

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  5. #5805
    Full Grown and Cussin' brunello97's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Garber View Post
    I don't think that the original maker put that label in there. I think it was that original dealer (not the seller on eBay) who did. That dealer evidently had a real 1912 Embergher in basket-case shape and figured it was a way to jack up the price. i don't think Ralf knew who the original maker was.
    Ah, the plot thickens. I'd like to imagine it was someone in Catania, showing off.

    Mick
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  6. #5806
    Registered User Tavy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Here's one that's just gone for silly money - is this genuine? Are these really that valuable? It's by Giovanni Battista Maldura.
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  7. #5807
    Registered User Alex Timmerman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Hi Tavy and all,

    Yes, this is genuine; these belong to the best ever made.


    Best,

    Alex.

  8. #5808
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Quote Originally Posted by Tavy View Post
    Here's one that's just gone for silly money - is this genuine? Are these really that valuable? It's by Giovanni Battista Maldura.
    Interesting bridge. I know I have seem one like it on another Italian mandolin.

    Alex: I know that you have a Maldura mandolin. How does it compare to Emberghers of the same grade?
    Jim

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  10. #5810
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Yet another Calace mandolyra. I wonder what this seller is expecting to get for it. I would think they could provide better photos, tho.
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    Jim

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  11. #5811
    Full Grown and Cussin' brunello97's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    For all my professed eclecticism, I have never thought these anything but weird. Must be easy to play up the neck, though.

    Bill, is that an early "G. Puglisi Reale" with stars-of-david resonators?

    Mick
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  12. #5812
    Registered User billkilpatrick's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    b'oh - photo was taken from the ensemble micrologus FB page: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000498038251 don't suppose we'll ever know if the painter went a little ott with the decoration or if he was painting from life .. but it COULD've been an early-early mandolin

  13. #5813
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Quote Originally Posted by brunello97 View Post
    For all my professed eclecticism, I have never thought these anything but weird. Must be easy to play up the neck, though.
    You must wear your protective eyewear when playing one.
    Jim

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  14. #5814
    Registered User billkilpatrick's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Quote Originally Posted by brunello97 View Post
    For all my professed eclecticism, I have never thought these anything but weird. Must be easy to play up the neck, though. ... Mick
    eye protection and snake handler's gloves - peg board looks like a cobra

  15. #5815
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Music Treasures has some interesting mandolins for sale.
    Jim

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  16. #5816
    Registered User billkilpatrick's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    ain't they gorgeous - particularly the early mandolins with wooden pegs

  17. #5817
    Registered User Martin Jonas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Garber View Post
    Music Treasures has some interesting mandolins for sale.
    That's the collection that they've been trying to sell for several years now, isn't it? I see that the fancy Ceccherini has sold -- I wonder how close to the asking price of $8000 they got? While there are some very attractive mandolins, some of it is dross, and most prices are in fantasy land. I would say that the best deal on that page is the Loveri, assuming it's as good condition as it looks -- I've had one pass through my hands (bought for another ensemble member who left soon after, taking the mandoling with him) and it was a really nice instrument. Looked identical to this one, except that I think the tailpiece and tuners on the one at Music Treasures are non-original. $500 is an OK price, and I suspect after this many years of trying to sell the collection, they will be open to lower offers. Photos and discussion of the Loveri I (briefly) handled a few years ago are here:

    Link

    Martin

  18. #5818
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    I certainly agree with you, Martin. I am not 100% sure if everything in the collection is now for sale and I have certainly seen the ones near the bottom of the page at Fred Oster's site. Roger never does seem to lower his prices or his expectations.

    I just thought it is a collection worth looking at and discussing. I wish i could actually inspect and play in person. I think some may still be on Fred's list.
    Jim

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  19. #5819
    Weirdo a pizzico Eugene's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    I've been corresponding with that shop since its inception. Some of the things they do and say are still silly (like offering a Neapolitan mandolin that they still claim was built in 1665).

  20. #5820
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Quote Originally Posted by Eugene View Post
    I've been corresponding with that shop since its inception. Some of the things they do and say are still silly (like offering a Neapolitan mandolin that they still claim was built in 1665).
    Yes, exactly... or the "Vinaccio"... that is described in great detail, with nothing said of it being a drastically modified mandolino Genovese.

    Just be sure of what it is that you're buying.

    Good to see your keyclicks Eugene.

    Best,

    Eric
    "The effect is pretty at first... It is disquieting to find that there are nineteen people in England who can play the mandolin; and I sincerely hope the number may not increase."

    - George Bernard Shaw, Times of London, December 12, 1893

  21. #5821
    Weirdo a pizzico Eugene's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Yeah, silly. ...And good to "see" you too, Eric.

  22. #5822
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Any HELP or info would be greatly appreciated. I just found my grandfathers old Ditson Empire bowl back mandolin, pretty rough shape, but Im going to keep and restore it. I have researched a little, but cannot find any pics like mine. It has in large letters FLYING A with what looks ike military wings! Missing a few pieces and chipped fret, but I would love to play this someday.
    Ive looked at 50 pics but none with Flying A on front. Any ideas? Thanks in advance. Barry
    Last edited by barrykbrewer; Jun-15-2012 at 9:35pm. Reason: spellling

  23. #5823
    Weirdo a pizzico Eugene's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Ditson commissioned their house brand from several makers. Can you post a few images, Barry? Be warned, none of them were exceedingly valuable, so a substantial restoration is likely to cost you more than the end result will be worth. Still, if your intent is not resale but to preserve, honor, and play an heirloom, it can be worth it to you.

  24. #5824
    Full Grown and Cussin' brunello97's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Barry, it would be great if you could post some pictures of your mandolin. That would help a lot. Maybe the "Flying A" is some type of custom work done on the basic model. Given that, as Eugene has noted, I have seen a range of "Empire" mandolins some having been made by CF Martin for Ditson. As you probably found out in your 50 images, they had a series "Conquest" "Empire" and "Victory", a curious collection of names, apparently in honor of the US victory in the Spanish-American war and the beginning of our ill-fated tenure as a colonial power.

    BTW I have a lovely Ditson Empire bowlback (probably Vega made) that by coincidence was just playing this evening. It is a real pleasure. I'd love to see yours.

    Mick
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  25. #5825
    Registered User Tavy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bowlbacks of Note

    Here's an interesting one, just spotted this as the main photo in an eBay add (no link I won't dignify it!):

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    Must be the most entertaining add I've seen all year....

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