beginner help>>>>>

[lancemountain]

Hello all,

I hope this is the right forum for this. If not I'll move it.

So I am thirty, and looking to purchase and learn the mandolin. I can read music and have played drums, guitar, trumpet for well over 20 years. This isn't an impulse, as I've considered this for years, but due to family reasons never had the time or expendable $$$ to start my new hobby.

So folks, what is a quality, but not insanely expensive mando to buy to learn on? I am only really interested in bluegrass, so my research led me to an "F" style, but truth be told I don't really know. If possible, I'd like to keep it under 400 for my first purchase.

Thanks for any help!

[Eric F.]

You want F holes but not necessarily an F style. You'll pay extra for the scroll. If you don't want a quality flat top like the Mid-Missouri, which is hands down the best instrument in this price range but is a flat top oval hole, then I would recommend a Kentucky 250. It's all solid wood, an A style with F holes. I have one that served as my only mando for a couple of years, and now is a loaner/beater/travel mando. It is loud, stays in tune and has decent tone. It will do the job. Buy one from Elderly Instruments and it will come set up nicely. (No, I don't work there.) They're about $250, and I don't think anything but a Mid-Missouri is better for $400 and less.

[fatt-dad]

Welcome! It's really not worth your while to buy an F-style mandolin for much less than $1,000.00. If you really want an F-style mandolin, I'd look at the Eastmans, although, I've played a few Epiphones that wern't half bad. In the under $400.00 range, I'd consider a Kentucky KM-250s or a KM-380s. In the $500 to $600 range, I'd consider an A-style Eastman. You'll have to google to learn more about their mandolin lineup. I think it's the 500 series that is their entry level mandolin.

Good luck. Check out this board cause this topic comes up fairly often and there's alot of free advice right here.

f-d

[lancemountain]

Well thank you both! looks like you both have similar advice.

May I ask to hear more about F holes and the A bodies?

[otterly2k]

Lance- Here is a link to the FAQ's (in the Archives of this site) that provides description of the different types of mandolins, among other things. I'm sure you'll get more responses with more info, but this is a good place to start.

Link

[ilarn89]

Let me throw in another vote for the Kentucky KM250. That was my first mando (from Folk Of The Woods and they did a great set-up on it). I've since bought an Eastman 615, and really like it. But, I still grab that Kentucky at least once a day...first love never ends.

[Eric F.]

F holes/A body sounds like F holes/F body. We have debated this here at times, and I think most people would agree that there is litte if any discernible difference. Some will insist there is a difference. Every mandolin sounds different from every other mandolin anyhow. F holes tend to give more projection, more of a focused, linear sound that cuts through other instruments better than oval holes. Oval holes can be loud, but still not be heard as easily through the mix of other instruments. I am speaking (writing, actually) in broad generalities here. You CAN play bluegrass on an oval hole. You CAN play it on a Mid-mo even. Most people play it on an F hole mandolin, though, for the reasons I mentioned above. Oh, and because Bill did!

[otterly2k]

btw-- I agree with Eric, and there is a used Mid-Missouri in the Classifieds right now in your price range. No financial interest (NFI)...

Also- strongly recommend going somewhere to play a bunch and try them out, if you are anywhere near a place to do that, so you can begin to acquaint yourself with the different styles and features of mandos first hand.

[mandolinplucker]

Make sure that whatever you get has a solid top. Laminates may sound good at first but tend to degrade with time. You can get a good "a" for a lot less than a bad "f".Since you play guitar you know that the set-up makes a lot of difference in tha sound and playability. If you can't set it up, buy from someone who can.

[Stillpicking]

I own 2 Michael Kelly F mandolins one of which is an oval hole F somewhat based on the old F4.
There is a ton of reviews on MKs some good & some not so good.
Having owned (and still own) these 2 MKs for about 3 going on 4 years I can say that they are a very good choice and you can get them for under $800 sometimes way under new and used.

The only advice I can give you is that both of my MKs needed a setup and both have had upgraded bridges and tailpieces but I am still way under $800 with cases for each of them. Many folks here have said you got to try before you buy. Well good advice but hard to do for some folks. I was not able to try my MKs plus in both cases I figured that I would have them setup locally. Without going into prices and setup costs I was still under that $800 cost per mando.

I also got a used Morgan Monroe off the Cafe classifies here last year. It needed some work but that was stated in the AD and I got it real cheap. This mando has turned out to be a real nice traditional F bluegrass sounding instrument, loud with a good chop a real keeper.

Check out the classified ADs here most folks here sell their mandos at very good prices and are up front with the buyers.

Have fun and good luck.

Mike

[F5G WIZ]

For the money, I don't think your gonna find a much better deal on a NEW, hand carved, solid top mandolin than the Eastmans. Don't own one but have played a few. They sound pretty good.

[lancemountain]

Thank you guys as well!

I live in Philadelphia, so I have no stores with differing inventories. #(the only ones I find are either made from plywood or are 4500)

edit: It looks like the Mid-Missouris's are all A, is that correct?

[charliede]

You have been given a lot of good advise about brands to buy. #The only addition I would make is a used Glenn student model if you can find one. #Since you live in Philly, I know your problem. #However a good selection is as close as Baltimore or NYC. #You can check out different brands there. Buying a used one from the classifieds or Ebay would stretch your dollar farther. #Also, I believe that Gianna Violins carries mandolins in that price range even though they don't advertise them and there would be no question about the set up.

[Martin Jonas]

All good advice up there. #The models mentioned are the standard recommendations for that price range, and with good reason. #One thing that may not have come across clearly yet is that there is not only a difference between body shapes (A vs F) and soundholes (oval hole vs f-holes), but also top construction (flattop vs carved (arch) top). #

- Body shape makes little if any difference to tone and playability but a big difference to the price. #If you're buying new, you will not be happy with any of the F-style in your price range. #So, A shape is the firm recommendation. #I note that the reference to A or F shape only makes sense for carved top mandolins: although most flattops are roughly the same shape as a carved A style, there are no flattop F styles.

- Soundholes make little difference to price: in the same price range, instruments with oval hole cost much the same as those with f-holes of comparable quality. #It makes a big difference to tone, but it's entirely up to you what you prefer. #F-holes are by far the most widespread in bluegrass, although by no means universal and a good carved oval hole mandolin can cut through very well. #In most other genres (jazz, choro, classical, celtic, folk), oval holes are the default choice although there are a fair number of great players who prefer f-holes. #As you're interested in bluegrass, and are probably not yet in a position to say whether you are one of the relatively few bluegrassers who prefer oval holes, on balance the f-hole configuration is probably right for you.

- Flattop vs. carved top is the most fundamental distinction. #This is closely similar to guitars: a good flattop guitar has a completely different tone from a good archtop. #In bluegrass, flattops are virtually unheard of, and the tone is not really suitable for that genre. #It is however eminentaly suitable for just about any other genre. #Flattops are virtually universally oval hole mandolins -- there are some vintage flattops with f-holes, but I'm not aware of any mainstream modern builders who make them. #However, because flattops are very much less labour-intensive to make than carved tops, flattop mandolins are very much cheaper than archtop mandolins of comparable quality. #Thus, the universally-recommended Mid-Missouri is well within your price range but is a professional-level instrument. #To get a comparable quality in a carved mandolin, you need to at least double the budget (cue people arguing over what constitutes "comparable quality"...). #Again, although the Mid-Mo is in my view the best quality mandolin in your price range, your stated preference for bluegrass would lead me to suggest a carved mandolin instead.

With that in mind, the default choices arising out of the many similar threads on the Cafe on this topic are:

- Carved A shape with f-holes: Kentucky KM380s or Eastman or Glenn. #The Kentucky is about half the price of the Eastman, which is about a fair reflection of the respective quality, but both are excellent instruments for their respective prices. #Glenns have been praised here recently but I don't know much about them.

- Carved A shape with oval hole: Eastman.

- Flattop: Mid-Missouri or Garrison (if you can find them).

Martin

[otterly2k]

Lance- I'm in Philly and know what the resources are. You can go to Vintage Instruments to try vintage Gibsons and Martins (and a few others), Todaro's carries Webers, 8th St. Music may carry a Michael Kelly or two, and if you go out to Medley Music in Bryn Mawr, you might find a Rigel or Weber. Guitar Center stores may carry Tacoma, MAYBE something like a Kentucky. Their staff will know nothing, most likely.

It would be well worth your while to make a road trip up to Mandolin Brothers (Staten Island), which is about 1.5-2hrs away depending on traffic. I don't know the Baltimore store. But Mando Bros. has probably the widest selection of mandos in the northeast-- so it's a great place to go and familiarize yourself with the array of choices and see what you like.

They do tend to have more on the high end than on the low... but they are happy to let you plunk and play and compare as long as you like. I doubt you'll find much in your price range there, but they ought to have some there that you might find USED in your range (e.g. Eastman, Morgan Monroe, Mid-Mo)... and if you've had the chance to see/play in person, it could help you know if you want to look for a used one.
KE

[Lee]

Where y'at Terrence? #I'm not far, and may have something that floats your boat.

[otterly2k]

I wasn't going to volunteer you, Lee... but nice of you to offer.

[fatt-dad]

- Flattop: Mid-Missouri or Garrison (if you can find them).

Or any Flatiron "pancake" (i.e., 1N, 2N, etc.).

f-d

[ab4usa]

If you want to go south to Bmore it's Appalacian Bluegrass in Catonsville. They will have Eastmans, Webers, Colloings, Some Saga instruments (Kentucky, Rogue), MK's and, last time I was there, a vintage Gibson.

[charliede]

If you search charliede you will find my thread about my trip to Appalachian Bluegrass. Directions are included.

[BlueMountain]

If you're starting out and have little money, I'd recommend a Rover RM-75. It's made in the same factory where Kentucky mandolins are made, and it's the same construction as a higher end Kentucky, but with less inlay and plain wood. Sounds just like one of the top Kentucky mandos. Here's an eBay link for an example: <a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/Used-Rover-RM-75-Mandolin-No-Reserve_W0QQitemZ290002381391QQihZ019QQcategoryZ10 179QQssPage
NameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem" target="_blank">http://cgi.ebay.com/Used-Ro....iewItem</a>
However, for even less money, get a Rover RM-50, which is made just like the RM-75, with a carved, graduated front and back and all, but is an A style. I have one that I bought for $100. I keep it in my very humid office for when I need a break now and then, and when I travel overseas, I take it in the plane in a light gig bag. If something happened to it, I'd survive. I'm nervous about carrying around my expensive mandolins, and I wouldn't want them in my office.

No, of course these don't sound as good as a good hand made mandolin (neither does any Eastman I've played), but mine both came with a decent set up and super low action. Good little players, and that's what a beginner needs. Above all, a decent neck with good action.

[Adam Tracksler]

I had an RM75 for my first mando. it was great. sometimes i Miss it, but the Hamlett makes those missing moments pass. I would vote for the RM-75. it has all the big mando bang for very short money.

[jenford]

I've got a used kentucky 675 with a neck crack that has been professionally repaired that can go really cheap. (solid wood, F style) I'm here in Philly.
Drop me a pm - I've also got a mid-mo if you'd like to see one....but that ones not for sale.

Best,


Jen Ford