The Harry H Garmont mandolin, 1951/52

[Martin Jonas]

I've just borrowed a set of ten old copies of the BMG (banjo mandolin and guitar in the UK) Magazine from 1951 and 1952 from a friend in our ensemble and was surprised to see that virtually the entire mandolin content in that particular year was given over to a series of detailed articles describing a "revolutionary new mandolin" design proposed and built by one Harry H. Garmont of Saint Augustine, Florida. Now, I have never heard of Garmont, or his mandolins, and from the articles it seems as if he may only ever have built two prototypes. Has anybody here heard of them, or know whether these still exist?

I'm posting this in the builders forum, rather than the "info about mandolins" forum, as I thought that the drawings at least might have a certain curiosity value. Garmont clearly didn't believe in keeping any feature of traditional designs if he can redesign it. Quite a lot of hype in the descriptions ("Its tone is, note for note, more soprano-like and more powerful than a genuine Guarnerius violin", for example), but it's difficult to evaluate whether there is any genuinely interesting substance, too.

Here is a photo of Garmont, with one of his prototypes. Looks more like a mandola from its body size, but the article says it's 13"7/8 scale.

Martin

[Martin Jonas]

Here are the two prototypes, quite possibly the only Garmont-design mandolins that were ever made.

Martin

[Martin Jonas]

Onto the drawings: the less interesting parts of the design are rather fiddly-looking headstocks and tailpieces, intended to control sympathetic string length and to ensure that both strings of each pair are the same length.

Martin

[Martin Jonas]

Much more interesting are the designs for the soundboard, bridge and soundchamber. This beast has got:

- Carved one-piece top and back.

- F-holes in top and back.

- A carved second soundboard suspended in the middle of the soundchamber.

- A soundpost (!) from the outer top to the second soundboard.

- A fixed bridge carved as one piece out of the wood of the soundboard, with a bone saddle on top and steel supports for the strings.

I barely know what to say. Any guesses as to how this may have sounded?

Martin

[Martin Jonas]

I know of only one other mandolin that has incorporated any of the Garmont design features, and that is this bowlback built 20 years ago or so by the very friend who lent me these BMG magazines: this one has a top that is both carved and canted and that has a fixed bridge carved out of the wood of the bridge. Unlike in the Garmont drawing above, this one has almost the entire bridge height integral with the top with only a two-millimetre bone saddle. Quite a successful instrument, actually, and John gets a very nice tone from it.

Martin

[mythicfish]

These drawings remind me of that old saying : If it aint broke, it probably doesn't have enough parts.

Curt

[Jim Garber]

It sounds like he follows in the dead-end footsteps of the illustrious Lloyd Loar in his post-Gibson ViVitone days. ViVitone guitars and mandolins had backs with f-holes and possibly some has soundposts as well.

Strange stuff. Great unearthing, Martin!

Jim

[George :-)]

I saw this thread and I know it's two years old, but it really brings back memories for me.
I live in Jacksonvile FL and during the late seventies and early eighties I would frequently visit Harry Garmont whenever I was down in St. Augustine. (he lived off of US 1 just north of the city)
Harry was always experimenting with various bracing, fret placement (remember the slant-fret Rickenbachers?) and even made his own varnish.

He abandoned the "F" holes-on-top design for a latter design he called "binaural". In this design there were a series of small round soundholes of various diameters along the sides of the instrument, above the middle resonator panel, and then another carved hole on the back which was also carved) in the shape of a stylized "HG" for Harry Garmont. The top would then have no interruption in it and could resonate freely. (neither the fingerboard or the tailpiece came in contact with the top).
These tops were made of quarter-sawn aged Sequoia he had obtained from very old buildings which had been torn down. The cross-section of the top shown in the "bridge and sound chamber" image above is not entirely accurate. The top was carved on each side and two (only two) braces would support the under side of the top like backwards parenthesis ) ( Each of these was made from two pieces of wood with opposing grains so that once steamed into shape and glued together, they would be extremely rigid. Although he used sheet metal jigs with concentric circles of holes for depth drilling, he always finished the carving by hand and tuned each top with a set of tuning forks and a small finger plane. Once done carving, he would spread a thin coat of glue to portions of the under side of the top and sprinkle specks of Cork around on it which he claimed served to attenuate pick noise.

His trademark was the spectacular carved owls head ornament found on top of the headstock which also wrapped around the back of it, covering the machines.
Although he also made mandolins and guitars, his biggest "seller" was his Mandocello.
When he died, rumor had it that a former Martin & Co. luthier named Paul Smith had obtained all of his old stock, unfinished instruments and his copious notes and drawings but I have not heard anything about them since.

All in all, a very remarkable group of instruments.

[Bruce Clausen]

This fascinating discussion (linked today by Martin from the Labraid LXIV thread) is a great example of the internet at its best: Martin posts some obscure 55 year old info about an obscure builder-designer, and George responds by generously sharing for posterity his personal recollections of the man and his instruments. Thank you both.

Great to hear about these design experiments-- including of course Brian Dean's visionary work.

BC

[Mike Bromley]

Amen, Bruce.

[zeroaster]

I was just reading your lovely story about Mr. Garmont and remembered that my mother had purchased an old guitar at a garage sale with his name on the label and the characteristic owlhead at the top of the fretboard. I was wondering if anyone would be able to tell me some more about this particular guitar (if that's what it is). It looks like the ones in the two small black and white sidebyside pictures of his instruments that I have seen on this website. It's a marvelous piece of folk art- has only 3 strings left, but I imagine it would sound pretty good if someone knew how to play it.

[zeroaster]

Dear Mr Jonas, My mother acquired one of these instruments at a garge sale in Carmel, California a few years back and I noticed the pictures you posted. The printed paper label in the interior of the "guitar", ( if that's what it is) is signed by Garmont and it is called "Sonora". It is a lovely piece of folk art and has only 3 strings left; I imagine it would sound quite nice if the right person got a hold of it. If you know anything more about this particular instrument, I'd love to hear about it. Thanks, Z

[mrmando]

zeroaster: Do you have any photos of your mother's instrument?

[Martin Jonas]

I'll echo what Martin Stillion has said: welcome to the Cafe, Zeroaster, and it would be wonderful to see some photographs of your mother's instrument.

The only thing I know about Garmont is from the articles I summarised in the opening posts in this thread back in 2006. There is mosre detail about these particular prototypes in the original magazine articles, but the essential bits are as above.

Then, in 2008, there was the wonderful post from "George :-)" in this thread, giving additional back story about what happened to Garmont following the original 1951/52 articles. I know nothing more about this than what he has written here, and as this is his only post ever on the Cafe, we are not likely to find out more from him unless he continues to read but not post on the Forum.

The original instruments above were mandolins, although they were guitar-shaped and might be confused for guitars by somebody not familiar with instruments. George has mentioned that Garmont also made guitars but that his most "successful" (relatively) instruments were mandocellos (which are guitar-sized instruments but with eight strings tuned like a cello). It is possible that the one your mother bought is an actual guitar, or it may be a mandocello if it has eight tuners at the headstock.

So, photos would be of very great interest to me and no doubt to others here. From what little I know about Garmont, it is likely that very few of his instruments still exist today and as what is in this thread is at least intriguing, it would be lovely if this one instrument could be made playable to see whether there is any real substance there, especially so if it were a mandocello which are few and far between in the first place. Unfortunately, with an maker as obscure as this one (and an amateur at that), this would really be a labour of love -- the instrument is unlikely to have any significant financial value whether restored or not.

Martin

[Jim Garber]

The is a brief mention of Garmont as a collaborator with the author of this book:

The Spanish Guitar in the Nineteenth and Twentieth Centuries
Author(s): Terence Usher
Source: The Galpin Society Journal, Vol. 9 (Jun., 1956)

You can download the article here for a price: http://www.scribd.com/doc/31997451/T...ieth-Centuries

I have a feeling tho that it is merely a mention and would not add much to our knowledge.

[Rick Turner]

If you're in the Carmel area, take it over to Dexter Johnston of Carmel Music. He's also Dawg's booking agent.

[zeroaster]

Hello- I have a Harry H. Garmont guitar that my mother found at a garage sale in Carmel, CA. It looks like the instrument in your thumbnail of a "mandolin", only it is larger, with 3 strings left. Wondered if you've found out anything else about Mr. Garmont; from the little information I have gleaned, he sounds like an interesting character. The instrument is a beautiful piece of folk art; would love to hear it's voice, but I'm afraid to have it restrung because I have this creepy feeling that it may be worth quite a bit of $$$. Please let me know if you have any more information. Thanx.

[Jim Garber]

The instrument is a beautiful piece of folk art; would love to hear it's voice, but I'm afraid to have it restrung because I have this creepy feeling that it may be worth quite a bit of $$$.

If it remains unstrung it is worth even less. The best advice I can give would be to take it to a reputable luthier. Rick Turner (an excellent luthier in his own right) recommended one in Carmel. If you tell us what locality you are in, we could prob recommend a few.

Frankly, Garmont is not well known and seems like his instruments might be a curiosity but I doubt they are worth such vast sums of money that they shouldn't be touched or strung.

[MikeEdgerton]

If you can post a picture that would be a great help and if you can tell us what city and state you are in we can suggest someplace you can take it. Even though it is rare it may not be worth very much.

[Jim Garber]

Even though it is rare it may not be worth very much.

Hmmmm, Mike... I may have to use that as my signature with your permission and attribution.

[Martin Jonas]

Well, I've said in my previous post above "Unfortunately, with an maker as obscure as this one (and an amateur at that), this would really be a labour of love -- the instrument is unlikely to have any significant financial value whether restored or not."

I really wouldn't want there to be any illusions on this point. This is a man who is a virtual unknown, this particular thread being just about the only source of information about him. He had a series of articles published about him sixty years ago, in a long-defunct small British journal, but he never appears to have been a professional luthier. No serious guitar collector out there will have heard of him, which means that the chances of anybody wanting to offer anything other than curiosity value is effectively nil. Unfortunately, even if it is a great instrument, it will not be worth any significant money. Especially not if it's unrestored and not strung up, meaning that it can't be evaluated on its own merits rather than its non-existent reputation.

Martin

[TomBrown]

Zeroaster, Harry Garmont was my Grandfather (my Mother's Father). Following his death in 1985, the Saint Augustine (FL) Airport expanded and through emminent domain took over his homestead/shop. Due to my uncle's ill handling of the affair, our family was left with no complete samples of his work. Although I cannot afford to pay too much (I'm a retired soldier), I would be interested in purchasing the Garmont instrument (mandocello, guitar or whatever) your mother has, in the shape it's in now, if she is interested in selling it. I hope we can reach some sort of arrangement; it would mean more to my family and I than I can put into words. Thank you,
Tom Brown, cid1sg@aol.com

[Bill Snyder]

Mr. Brown, you could try sending zeroaster a PM but in looking at zeroaster's profile he/she has not logged in since October.

[TomBrown]

Thank You Mr Snyder...I managed to get in touch with Zeroaster in just the manner you suggested.
Tom

[Kerry Krishna]

Is he going to sell the instrument to you?