emergency advice! high action on a kentucky

[dobroitis]

I am thinking of buying a kentucky 380s tommorow as it will be gone soon, but I played it at the store today and discovered it has a really high action. Is this common for these imports? Can they be lowered?

[glauber]

Probably yes. Impossible to say without looking at the instrument, since for example, the arm could be warped. But if the instrument is normal, it shouldn't be hard to get the action lower, especially if it has an adjustable bridge.

[dobroitis]

The bridge was actually lowered all the way, but a guy there said you can sand on the bottom of the bridge to lower it more.

[GTison]

how high is the action?
If the bridge fits the top really good, then you can sand the top of the bridge down thinner. But if you have to do all this I would pass on that mandolin and shop around some.

[woodwiz]

From your description, it sounds like the neck has pulled up on it. If lowering the bridge all the way leaves the strings still too high at the 12th fret, you've likely got a neck problem, probably expensive. If the strings are just too high up near the nut, you only need to set the action at the nut, relatively cheap and easy.

[dobroitis]

The nut is low, the first and second frets are fine for clearance.

[dobroitis]

Would a mid mo m-4 make a better mando?

[glauber]

Define better... it's a different instrument, and it depends on what you're looking for. The M-4 has going for it: solid woods, well built instrument with great customer support from the factory, really almost a luthier instrument for factory price, but it's probably not something you'll see played in a bluegrass band.

I agree that if the adjustable bridge is all down and the action is still high, then it looks like there is something else wrong with that mandolin. Again, hard to say for sure without being there.

For the intents of full disclosure: i own a M-11 Mid-missouri and a MM68 Ovation.

[dobroitis]

What would be a good mando for around 300 to 400?

[JEStanek]

The answer to your question is, often the imports have high actions. Brand new from the factory the benefit alot from adjustment of bridge, nut for action. The factory strings aren't that great either.

The Kentucky 380 has an adjustable truss rod. Here is a test for the neck... get a straight edge, like a 12 inch metal ruler, place the long edge on the frets and look from the side and see if there is a gap in the middle or a hump in the middle (i.e., the nut and end pieces are not touching. If the edge touches all of them then the neck is straight and the problem may be the height of the feet of the bridge and the nut.

Don't buy it with a bowed neck unless they can adjust it to straight with the truss rod.

The mid -mo will be an excellent instrument as well but will sound different from the Kentucky. Flat vs arch top. oval vs. f-holes. It's not a bluegrassy looking instrument. The Mid mo is great for a wide variety of things and can mix into a bluegrass jam but won't have all of the punch a ff hole arch top mando will.

Jamie

[dobroitis]

Thanks for the replies. What mid mo has the richest deepest sound? Is there anyone willing to sell one? I never see them on ebay

[Eric F.]

There's an M4 in the classifieds reduced to $375. That's a steal, I think. I'd buy it on principle, but I need to thin the herd, not expand it.

[JEStanek]

Dobro, tone is in the ear of the beholder. You can hear some clips of different Mid Mos being played here. Caveat emptor and do a search before buying. These clips, while they are older will give tonal flavors of the different mid mos.

Jamie

[dobroitis]

One thing I was going to ask about the mid mo's - With guitars I am a freak for having a very low action all the way along the neck. Is this hard to get on a mid mo because the truss rod is non-adjustable?

[Darren Kern]

Nothing to do with an adjustable truss rod. If the nut has the right depth slots and the bridge is the right height, you can have as low of action as you want. The Mid-Mo I played was as low as you could get without buzzing, and the sound was 10 times better than any Korean made Kentucky or Michael Kelly, at least the ones I've heard. Listen to the advice people have been giving you and have given other new members in the past (search the archives). Don't be one of the seemingly many that ask "should I buy this mando?", get lots of advice saying they could do better for the money, and buy it anyway. Oh, and welcome to the Cafe

[JEStanek]

Dobro,

If you're considering the mid moa nd are concerned about action, consider this... I remember threads here speaking very highly of Mid-Mo's service. If you contact them, or buy directly from them, they can send you the mando and even a couple of other bridges of differing heights. Another option is to put an adjustable bridge on it. I would have a luthier fit an archtop bridge to your flattopped mid-mo to ensure propper foot seating. Then you could adjust the height with the wheels on your own.

Lots of options available for a great mando...

Jamie

[acousticphd]

Dobroitis,

Just as an alternative voice to the rising crest of "buy a Mid-Mo" advice - though this may be a very good plan - #I think the KY380S could be a pretty good choice for the budget you mentioned ($300-$400). #Especially if you'd rather have an archtop mandolin. #The sound and vibe of the flattop vs archtop will be fairly different. #I expect the MM would sound warm and sweet, and we know that they are well made. #The archtop will probably give you more projection, brighter tone, and feel bluegrassier.

You really should be able to buy a new KY380S for ~$300. #There are plenty of stores advertizing that price or lower online. #A new Mid-Mo, I think, will be at least $400 though probably money well-spent. I owned a 380S, from near the end of the Korean-made period. #It was really a very decent beginner/intd instrument, but it did need setup and bridge adjustment, as you are describing. #These instruments have been made in China for several years. #A lot of people may tell you (including me) that most of the Korean-made ones sounded a little better and seemed to be put together a little more carefully. #On the other hand, the new prices have gone down since then, not up, and this is the best A-model they make. # Of dozens of new KY mandolins I've ever picked up in a store, hardly a one has ever had anywhere near a decent setup. #This is obviously a big bummer for the potential buyer/player. #The particular 380S in your store might not be the one to buy, but it could also be that the factory put on too tall of a bridge (even adjustable bridges can have a range of starting heights). #If you're interested in it, you are more than justified in insisting the store set it up, even restring it, so that you can evaluate it. # Good luck,

[cooper4205]

i got my 380s about three weeks ago for $299 brand new. i also thought the action on mine was i little high when i got it, but it wasn't hard to correct. i had a set-up done to have the action like my friends flatiron. i had the slots deepened in the nut, the bridge lowered a bit and the truss rod set right, it plays like a dream now and there is no buzzing down the neck. it didn't set me back much either, only $20 to have it done.

[otterly2k]

dobroitis-- as hard as it might be, I'd suggest not buying the Kentucky in false emergency mode. Take your time to research your options, try out some different mandos, and make an informed choice.

If it was my $, I'd buy a Mid-Mo, but then I'm not a 'grasser. Don't worry about the truss rod... if there was ever something wrong with a Mid-Mo neck (and I really have not heard complaints about that around here), I have no doubt that the company would handle it honorably, as they have many other (mostly minor) issues reported here. The action should be low, and can be made lower by a variety of techniques. And you can get a flat-footed adjustable bridge if that's important to you.

If you find a Kentucky that just speaks to you, plays well and has all you're looking for, go for it. But don't buy it just because it's there and cheap. There will always be another one of those.

mho
KE

[Darren Kern]

Good advice, Karen. I am now of the opinion that even if your preference is bluegrass, if you only have $300-500 to work with, you're better off buying a Mid-Mo and having something that sounds good and plays even better while you save up for a quality bluegrass archtop. Chances are you won't get rid of the Mid-Mo when the time comes.

[dobroitis]

Thankyou, I do not have the option of playing mandos (we live out in the sticks) so I do extensive internet research. I am mainly thinking of buying a kentucky or epiphone for a good price on ebay so i can start learning while i hunt for the perfect mando. The thing with a non-adjustable truss rod on a mid mo is that if the neck starts to cave in, there is not much you can do.

[otterly2k]

That's true, dobroitis, but there are MANY Mid-Mo owners #around here and I can't recall ANY complaints about the necks. There have been many conversations about the relative merits of adjustable truss rods, and whether they are truly necessary on mandos (no arguments that they ARE necessary on longer necked instruments)...many fine quality builders use non-adj neck reinforcements with good results. #Most adjustments that you might want to make won't be in neck relief if the neck is good to start with.

I don't work for Mid-Mo, I don't even own a Mid-Mo, but from what I've seen and heard about here among one of the largest (THE largest?) collection of mandolin enthusiasts around is that the folks at Mid-Mo stand behind their products 110%... if one of their necks "caved" they'd make it right, I have no question in my mind about this. #Their service reputation is golden. #

Obviously, if you want a Kentucky or Epiphone for other particular reasons... that's different. #I'd just suggest that you not consider the truss rod issue as the deciding factor.

In my opinion...if you want to start learning right away, get the best quality instrument you can afford so that the sound and playabiliy make it EASY to learn on and inspire you to move forward. Again... if I was buying solely by brand, I'd be going with Mid-Mo for quality solid woods, put together by hand, consistently high-quality product where all the money you're paying is going into the quality of the instrument and not into decorative frou-frou.

KE

[glauber]

Necks don't cave in; they either fail quickly when the mando is built, or they don't (that's what i read; maybe someone will contradict me). The Mid-Mo has a truss-rod, only a non-adjustable one. Eventually, say in 50 years, you may need a neck reset, but by then other things may have gone wrong besides the neck - nothing lasts forever without some kind of maintenance. I've never felt a need to adjust the height of the bridge either.

Just be aware that flat-tops (Mid-Mo) and carved-tops (Kentucky) are really 2 different kinds of instruments; they're both called "mandolin" and are tuned the same way, but the sound is noticeably different, especially in the amount of attack and the tonality, carved-tops having much stronger attack and having their frequencies more concentrated in the mid-range. I personally am a flat-topper. Many Americans prefer the punch are personality of the carved-top instruments. I'm not American.

[dobroitis]

Ok, i give. Mid mo it will be. Sorry kentucky.

[Eric F.]

FWIW, I have two pre-truss rod Gibsons. Their necks are just fine after 90+ years.