Which type of chords to use?

[Monson]

Okay, I'm going from guitar to mandolin.
There seems to be two kinds of chords to learn:
four finger, movable "chop" chords, and then easier, two finger chords.
Clearly, the chop chords are mostly for playing in a band.
At this point, the chop chords are really hard for me to play. Really hard. But, of course, the two finger chords are pretty easy.
1. are the two-finger chords really used that much by most players?
2. how long, with steady practice, does it seem to take to get to be able to make smooth, quick transitions between four finger chords and to get a good sound?
Thanks.

[glauber]

The 4-finger "chop" chords are mostly (almost only) used for Bluegrass. If you're playing Bluegrass, that's probably what you will use.

Jazz people like movable 3-finger chords, which were popularized by Jethro Burns, because they leave a finger free to add passing notes and dissonances. Irish/Celtic players like chords that have open strings (probably your 2-finger chords).

[Monson]

I want to play bluegrass, oldtime, country

[glauber]

Anything from Bill Monroe on will use the 4-finger "chop" chords, and "chopping" itself (the percussive sound done on bars 2 and 4) will be much in evidence.

[glauber]

Here (click)'s some interesting information from the Cafe's tutorials page.

[Dfyngravity]

I think it depends on the application and what you are playing.

I play music that is more jazz than bluegrass, but it has elements of bluegrass...almost like dawg music so I rely on every way of forming chords. When it comes down to it, it's how I need to voice it, whether it be 1st inversion or whatever it may be. And I mix chops with strumming and all sorts of various rhythmic techniques.

If you are playing bluegrass then the chop is the way to go, and the 4 fingers are your best choice for that. Any other style music I think you can use whatever seems to work best.

[250sc]

I know good bluegrass players who only play 2 note chop chords and don't use their little finger but I've found it limits what they can play.

I would advise working on everything. In the beginning if you can't play the full chop chord play the 2 note partial but understand that it is only a part of the full 4 note chord. Keep working on doing the stretch needed to play a chop chord and every other aspect of playing the mandolin. You can work on it your whole life and still have more to learn.

[AlanN]

What all have said above, work on everything.

In an old MWN, Mike Marshall laid out the chords to Grisman's 16-16. 3 pages of diagrams to 4 chords - EbM7, Dm, Cm, D7. There must have been 10 different shapes for a D9, some easy to fret, some not so easy. Learn 'em all, use 'em judiciously

[groveland]

Now that the general consensus is to learn all chords, may I suggest the link below. It presents a powerful and straightforward how-to for constructing chords of all kinds and their inversions on the mandolin.

Try it on for size.

[picksnbits]

I came from guitar as well. One thing I remember getting stuck on was the angle the left hand comes into the neck from. I had been used to the wrist coming into the back of the guitar neck from nearly a right angle. On mandolin I found that I had to bring my left elbow in closer to my body and let my wrist come into the back of the neck from an angle in order to make the spread for four-fingered chords.

I dove in with four fingers from the start and haven't regretted it a bit.

[Monson]

Nice board--very helpful.
I have a feeling mandolin players are superior human beings.
I think I'll get those four finger chords DOWN.

[fatt-dad]

Learning the chop chord position will also help get your hand position right for playing arpeggios or working through the scale.

f-d

[Tom C]

Alan,
Which issue?

[gnelson651]

I want to play bluegrass, oldtime, country

Monson:

My first jamming experience has been with an oldtime fiddle group and I find that the 2 finger chords sound better with oldtime music than closed chords. I've found that chops don't do well with most fiddle tunes with the exception of fiddle tunes sometimes played in bluegrass such as "Ol' Joe Clark" or "Bil'em Cabbage Down." The ring of the open strings seems to go better with oldtime.

For oldtime, I like to play the bass(G) string on the 1st beat and strum on the 2nd beat, bass on the 3rd, stum on the 4th of a 4/4/ song. For 3/4 waltz, bass (G) string #on the 1st beat then strum on the 3rd and 4th beat. I'm still trying to figure out a good backup for 6/8 jig timing

Lately, I've started going to Bluegrass jams and I almost always use closed chord chops adding fills and licks when needed with the vocals.

I haven't done much country but what I've played,I've found that you can go either way, depending on the song.

[Monson]

Thanks.
Of course, right now, the two finger chords (especially bass strum)sound so much better than the chop chords and are so much easier to change. So, it is tempting to mostly play the two-finger chords -- I love the way the open strings sound.
but- I know I need to practice the chop chords

[jmcgann]

old time music is pre-bluegrass, so the chop chords "work" but sound less idiomatic than open string voicings.

That said- the more you know, the more you know. Rarely a bad thing

[AlanN]

Alan,
Which issue?

Tom,

It's the one where Mike is on the cover holding a Monteleone, maybe 1984?

[morgan]

A drawback of open voicings is that some of those ringing open tones can get in the way. You can also use alternative 4-course voicings that are easier to play than the standard bluegrass chop, but you give you 4-course control.

For example, you can play an A chop 9-7-4-5, or you can play an A with the root on the bass string as 2-2-4-5 (this is the same voicing as the 2-finger G, except for the A you need to fret the strings that are open on the G). The two A chords have the same notes, but on different strings. To my ear the 2nd voicing sounds better on most music except "real" bluegrass, which wants that chop sound, and it still lets you control sustain on all four strings. The shape moves easily up and down the neck and its also easy to modify to 7th, minor, sus 4, etc. chord shapes.

But still learn to play the chop, you can’t play mando without someone demanding bluegrass backup! In response to your question about "how long?" I think if you’ve already got some finger dexterity from the guitar it will be less time than you think/fear if you keep at it.

[AlanN]

Alan,
Which issue?

Tom,

It's the one where Mike is on the cover holding a Monteleone, maybe 1984?

Oops.

Summer 1980 issue with Mike Seeger in it.