Results 1 to 10 of 10

Thread: From Bill Cheatam to Bill Monroe

  1. #1
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Gastonia, NC
    Posts
    9

    Default

    Hi folks,

    I've been lurking for a couple of weeks, and reading some of the older topics before I chimed in with my first question.

    For background, I've played guitar for about 25 years, most of that time as the singer in various rock bands, but since I was never the "lead" guitarist (I got demoted(?) to singer in my first band) I became very lazy about actually practicing my guitar; therefore I am a mediocre guitarist, at best. I do however have a pretty fair understanding (but certainly not mastery) of music theory.

    I've recently begun to get a lot of enjoyment out of rediscovering the old-time country and gospel music that was ever-present in my home when I was young. So, that has kindled a desire to learn to play the mandolin.

    Acknowledging my past lack of commitment to the guitar, I bought a very cheap Rogue mandolin from Musician's Friend to learn the basics and see if it is something I would like to pursue further. (I fully realize that I will need to upgrade before long if I stick with this, but I have to say that for $40 I am pleasantly surprised by the Rogue.) I've had it for about 2 weeks now, along with Bert Casey's Primer book & DVD.

    Things are going well so far. The Casey Primer was probably just what I needed to have the basics laid out for me, and to learn a few simple tunes. However, I can also see that I am quickly absorbing this material (technique-wise), and the internet is chock full of tab for new songs. I have a pretty good idea of how to put together a series of exercises to develop basic scale familiarity, and I've already taken a look at the FFcP material here, and plan to incorporate that. I'm also working on getting some major chords ingrained in my "finger-memory". (I never expected a mandolin chord would require such a pinky-stretch like on that "G" chop chord.)

    So, after that long-winded introduction, I would like to get some suggestions on a good progression of study materials to acquire. I'm not so much interested in material for developing dexterity, as I already understand what is required on that front (if I'll only stick with it). I'm more interested in stylistic instruction where the instructor disects a song and discusses why certain techniques, modes, etc. work where they do.

    I don't mean to suggest that I have any real skill on the mandolin yet, only that I want to chart a course from playing simple melodies (rather slowly) to improvising lead breaks in bluegrass songs. I also welcome any and all advice from those who have walked this path before.

    Thanks in advance,
    Chris
    Happy trails,
    Chris

  2. #2
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Berkley, MI
    Posts
    1,955

    Default

    You don't have to spend money for study materials. Check out the tabs here on the 'Cafe. Also look into mandozine.com and mandohacks Jazzmando site.

  3. #3
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Gastonia, NC
    Posts
    9

    Default

    250,

    Thanks for your comments (really), but I think you misunderstood my question. I am familiar with those resources (and am already beginning to work on the ffcp stuff from JazzMando), and lord knows I'm in for all the "free" help I can get. But I am already familiar with the concept of modes as the major scale with a varying tonal center, circle of 5ths, etc. As a matter of fact, at one time I did study some guitar material that is very similar in nature to the content at JazzMando (and really like that approach, aside from the fact that I'm not very interested in jazz at this time - sorry mandohack).

    What I am looking for are materials (free or otherwise) that will help me gain a better understanding of how those universal building blocks are used when constructing bluegrass, fiddle tunes, etc. - particularly as it applies to which scales or modes are commonly used, how, and why.

    I really don't care if that means looking at good web sites (thanks again), books, DVD's (I like pictures), or just some good advice from forum members.

    Also, some good recommendations for listening material would be very welcome, maybe some artists and specific material that would be approachable for a novice. I am able to learn by ear when forced to.

    Thanks,
    Chris
    Happy trails,
    Chris

  4. #4
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Berkley, MI
    Posts
    1,955

    Default

    Hi Chris,

    Sorry I don't know of anything that is as specific as what you discribe but since you already understand how music works and are "able to learn by ear..." I would suggest that you use a Slow Down application and start transcribing solos that catch your ear.

    There are so many great players that I'm not sure where to start in suggesting CDs. What CDs and players do you currently like?

  5. #5
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Columbia, MD
    Posts
    128

    Default

    The Casey Primer you went through is a great starting point. It has easy versions of a lot of the common tunes you'll hear at jams. I still revert back to these basic versions at fast jams.

    Greg Horne has a series of method books that have a pretty nice progression of skills plus include tunes to build your repertoire. Here is the beginner book:
    http://elderly.com/books/items/20-22665.htm

    Simon Mayor's "The Mandolin Tutor" has a good variety of musical styles and some good technique stuff. He also has a more advanced book called "Mastering the Mandolin".

    For bluegrass, Jack Tottle's "Bluegrass Mandolin" has been a popular instructional book for a long time. It progresses from simple versions of tunes to more complex arrangements and includes most of the standard bluegrass jam tunes.

    I've had fun with Butch Baldassari's "30 Fiddle Tunes for the Mandolin", but it's more of a repertoire book than a technique/skills method.

    Roland White's Bluegrass Mandolin Method book is also a lot of fun. The tunes get progressively more difficult, and I really like the slides and double stops he puts into the tunes.

    Brad B.

  6. #6
    Registered Muser dang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Omaha, NE
    Posts
    1,185

    Default

    Chris- I have been thinking along similar lines of your post here for a while. #Having searched the internet for every resource I could find, it seems that without a plan for how I want to progress, all of this material will do me little good. #Obviously, there is not going to be one concrete answer to what you should do to
    "help me gain a better understanding of how those universal building blocks are used when constructing bluegrass, fiddle tunes, etc. - particularly as it applies to which scales or modes are commonly used, how, and why."
    --and even if you did understand it intellectually, could you put it to use in your playing? #You seem to be asking about understanding music theory . #But, to get to the point, you also state--
    "I want to chart a course from playing simple melodies (rather slowly) to improvising lead breaks in bluegrass songs"
    which is more of a functional kind of understanding...if you follow me...
    So, maybe you have seen this, but when I saw this it made me think about how I want to progress..."As for as the sequence of learning scales, arpeggios, pentatonics, neck mapping, and improvising I've put together the following plan for my own personal study."-Mike Stangeland
    Mandozine "Mandolin Progress"
    I feel like in my own round-about way I am addressing most of the issues mike is raising here with my own practice, (though not necessarily in the order he presents them). #The important part is to have the understanding of the fretboard and the muscle memory to use it--which I think Mike's approach would accomplish.
    I have a couple of years of music theory under my belt, and I feel like I really don't want to just understand what is going on and how these things link together to form music, but want a more practical, useful, experienced understanding so that when I know what sounds good, the use of a scale, mode or arpeggio used is an afterthought, and I am really guided by my ear. #I am amazed when I play something and realize insights into the construction afterwards. #That is when it makes sense to my fingers and ears!
    I should be pickin' rather than postin'

  7. #7
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Memphis, TN
    Posts
    276

    Default

    I think I understand the issue. I started out learning tunes and breaks from tab but never understood how things were put together. Several things that are helping me are the two Fiddle Tune Variations/Improvisation books, one Tom Ohmson "FIDDLE TUNE METHOD FOR MODERN MANDOLIN: AN INTRODUCTION TO IMPROVISATION by Thomas Ohmsen" and one by John McGann "Developing Variations in Fiddle Tunes". Also the Horne series "Beginning, Intermediate, Mastering" mentioned above is nicely progressive in terms of theory, technique and content. Also the Mandolin Master Class by Brad Laird and the Niles Hokkanen books "The Pentatonic Mandolin" and "Bluegrass Up The Neck" all take you away from simply learning rote breaks/tunes and help you figure out how all the pieces fit together for improvisation or at least working out your own solos at home. Each one has it's own strengths. I haven't found anything that has it all in one place but each of these is helping me get closer to my goal of developing comfort improvising.

    Mark

  8. #8
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Las Vegas, NV
    Posts
    957

    Default

    If you want a breakdown of how a fiddle tune can be constructed, I recommend John McGann's "Developing Melodic Variations on Fiddle Tunes, Mandolin Edition."

    This should start you in understanding how variations of the same fiddle tune can be made. He gives a phrase by phrase breakdown with a written explanation of each variation.

    Book Description:

    "This book presents standard fiddle tunes in basic form, then shows you how, on a phrase-by-phrase basis, the tunes can become vehicles for your own improvisations. It is designed to open the door to creating spontaneous variations, or improvisations, based on the melodic structure unique to each tune. Each tune in the book is presented first in its basic form, then with four variations. The variations are printed directly beneath the melody with the corresponding measures aligned, so that you can easily compare them to the original melody and to each other."

    I hope this is what you've lookihng for.
    Glenn Nelson
    Las Vegas, NV

    "Every day brings a chance for you to draw in a breath, kick off your shoes and play your mandolin."

  9. #9
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Gastonia, NC
    Posts
    9

    Default

    Good stuff. I'll have to see if I can get my hands on some of those suggestions.

    Thanks much!

    Quote Originally Posted by
    There are so many great players that I'm not sure where to start in suggesting CDs. What CDs and players do you currently like?
    See, that's my problem. I've only just started listening to this music on more than a "I kinda like the sound of that" level. I grabbed a bunch of individual songs from iTunes. (primarily "classic" bluegrass like Monroe, Stanleys, Flatt & Scruggs, McCoury, etc.) I'm aware of people like Grisman, Bush, and other pickers that I've seen mentioned on these forums. In the short time that I've been trying to immerse myself in this stuff, I've found that even those guys have a pretty broad range of styles on record. I would like to focus on the more traditional BG sound at this time.



    Happy trails,
    Chris

  10. #10
    Registered User luckylarue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Albuquerque, NM
    Posts
    961

    Default

    I'd recommend learning some standard fiddle tunes - things most people play at jams, festivals, etc.
    I started out w/ a book/cassette entitled "Mando Jam" by Andy Cushing. Nice, fairly staight-forwarded melodies of some classic fiddle-tunes. The tape(now cd) provides a melody example of each tune then the mando cuts out and you can play w/ the backing band. Playing along w/ the backup really helped my rhythm immensely and got me up to speed to play in jams, which was my goal early on. You can get Mando Jam at Elderly. Good luck.

Similar Threads

  1. Bill monroe's f5
    By 8ch(pl) in forum Builders and Repair
    Replies: 2
    Last: Jul-10-2008, 11:43am
  2. Bill monroe
    By LowGapBG in forum General Mandolin Discussions
    Replies: 50
    Last: Nov-18-2006, 7:38am
  3. Bill Monroe
    By in forum General Mandolin Discussions
    Replies: 37
    Last: Aug-24-2004, 1:11am
  4. Bill Monroe
    By Yonkle in forum General Mandolin Discussions
    Replies: 18
    Last: Apr-21-2004, 7:31am
  5. Bill Monroe Bio...
    By BenE in forum General Mandolin Discussions
    Replies: 10
    Last: Feb-17-2004, 11:00am

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •